Girls not allowed to use toilet during lessons - what to do?

[tigerbear]

DD has just begun secondary at an all girls school. It’s written into the school policy that they aren’t allowed to visit the toilet either during lessons, or inbetween lessons, ONLY at morning break and lunchtime.
Aside from the dangers of ‘holding it in’, I’m concerned about the discomfort and embarrassment of young girls who are just starting their periods, and getting used to all that entails.

DD and I had a chat last night about periods (the signs are there that she may start soon), and she said she’s concerned about starting at school and it showing on her clothes. I told her that if she does start, just to ask to go to the loo, but she said they aren’t allowed.

Has anyone else ever challenged their DD’s school on this policy, and if so, what was the outcome?

I also hate that there are no mirrors in most of the toilets. So annoying all day not to be able to see if your eye is red or how bad that zit is on your chin. It feels like taking something fundamentally human away.

I remember this being a policy when my daughter was at secondary school years ago and they had 100 minute lessons. One of her friends had a bladder infection and had to produce her antibiotics to prove to the teacher that she was not lying, all the while trying not to jump up and down out of desperation in front of the laughing boys. Totally inhumane. The toilets were locked except for break time too. When we had parents’ evening, l pointed out that locking the toilets was almost certainly against the law.

This has already been a problem for my sweet and genuine DD. The queues are massive at lunchtime they only have 35 min lunch and with grappling wiith where things are she is worried that she won't make form time. The other day she waited 5 hours as a result and went after school, she then walked on her own with as school friends had different lessons and thoight she'd gone. This worried me as I don't really want my 11 year old walking alone!

If pupils are playing up in the toilets then deal with those individually.

A blanket toilet ban/toilets being locked is like assuming you are going to misbehave.

@Rosehugger are you some kind of teacher troll or just genuinely clueless?

If we cut secondary schools in half and halved the class sizes a lot of the problems would disappear overnight. This would be the dream but it won't happen. Rising population, underfunding by the government, not enough schools, and where are you going to find the extra teachers? Also, it won't solve the problem with behaviour, some kids misbehaviour even if in a clas by themselves!

And teachers have zero training in dealing with neurodiversity, and loads of teachers have no natural authority. Not true, do you have any evidence of this? I have had so many training and insets on neurodiversity. I'm not an expert but to say teachers have no training is false. And loads of teachers have no natural authority? Not all, but I would say the majority of teachers do. It's just that the behaviour has got worse, social issues have got worse, class sizes bigger and teachers aren't allowed to discipline or shout at children so it's harder to be authoritative. I mean, look at how many people on this thread have told their children to just walk out of class because the teacher can't stop you.

The school I currently work in had the issue of vaping, fights and property damage in toilets as others have mentioned. The management was going the route of 'oh well, we will lock the toilets during class' until myself and a few others raised the legal issues involved in such a poorly thought-out plan as well as the logistics of keeping a key at reception for 'emergency use by students who really need it.'

After legal consultation the school made the correct decision that locking toilets was a bad idea. You can't punish everyone because of the stupidity of a few bad apples. Instead, they installed cameras with fixed point of view over the entrance of the toilets and wash hand basins. This had to be done sensitively and with consultation with parents and students, including very strong information about where the cameras were, how they recorded, what was done with recordings and what the camera could see. The result was that after only a month of operation and consistently punishing all those caught on tape damaging property, vaping or fighting in the common space of the toilets in front of the wash basins, we have never really had such issues again.

The issue of students using the toilet as an excuse to get out of class is an issue but as a teacher you quickly learn who is taking advantage. By teachers keeping note on their electronic register of who leaves class and when, it is easy to notice patterns and to institute toilet rationing tokens for such students after a conversation with their parent/guardian. Once you have evidence that "yes, in the last 3 weeks your child has left 95% of his science classes to use the toilet. Or, yes, your child has consistently left to use the toilet 10/13 classes every day the past week. Have they a bladder issue? If not, we are instituting a token system for their use of the toilets."

Better to target those who would abuse the system and cause trouble than to punish everyone. Blanket policies may be easier, but they are inherently unfair.

The evidence of it is in being part of the group Not Fine In School and thousands of experiences on there. Yes, you are only getting one side of the story but the stories are so common and similar.

Just because something is difficult, it doesn't mean it can't be done. Finland revolutionised their school system and it gets some of the best results in the world.

But the point is , no one would stop you if you needed to go.
What about heavy periods , leaking etc ?

I remember in primary school, a girl wasn't allowed to go to the toilet and she wet herself. It's kind of a basic human need.

I rarely use the toilet at work between starting at 9.30 and lunch at 1pm, that's 3.5 hours

I do! I probably go twice in the morning and twice in the afternoon (at least), and I stand up and walk around a fair bit otherwise as sitting for long periods without a break is unhealthy.

Oh goddddd I hate this policy. I had it in my school and yes, they did make an exception for periods but to be granted that you had to walk up to the (often male) teacher and explain that you were on your period and needed to leave the room. Still remember the humiliation and girls laughing.

I had a friend at school who solved the issue by pissing over a teacher's things and the front of the class (deputy head I ). Extreme, but did lead to a quick change of policy. Don't suppose she has any particularly ballsey friends? My friend was suspended for a week iirc, but never had any come back from other students - it was such an extreme move that she was never mocked for it, only the teacher was...

@tigerbear can I just recommend period pants for your dd. They really are amazing and I wish I'd had them when I was young.

Dd wears a pair in the morning (sometimes wears a pad too on the first heaviest day which she then removes at break) has a spare pair in a waterproof make up bag in case she wants/needs to change at lunch but rarely does. Fresh pair on when home and another pair before bed.

Why do schools still do this . I appreciate they think some may waste time etc but they would spot that
I don't have to ask at work to go , primary they can go
We had this when i was at school the toilets were only unlocked break and lunch and I had awful heavy periods it was a nightmare for me .
Surely discretion by teachers is all that is needed

@alrightfella may I ask what brand you buy? Other people have said Modibodi are good, but wondering if cheaper brands on Amazon are just as good?

Loads of my teachers growing up didn't want us to use the toilet during lessons, so I spent years going to the loo at every single break time "just in case", so every two hours. I found myself quite genuinely not being able to hold my bladder for more than two hours (max) and it's taken me until now, at the end of my twenties, to be able to train my bladder. The amount of anxiety I felt surrounding it all was unreal and it really did affect my ability to learn.

Just let people go to the toilet when they actually need to go and write it down. If the same kids are always taking the piss then deal with it. All of this "scheduling" your toilet needs is absolute nonsense that left me unable to go on day trips for years just in case there wasn't a toilet nearby.

I'm a teacher and this is the policy at my school too, I do not agree with it so I've never actually stopped a female pupil from going to the loo. Hopefully it's just a rule that isn't implemented much or it doesn't apply to girls? If I was a mum/female pupil I would just pester them about it. What is the teacher going to do? Rugby tackle to the ground?!

Create a fuss if your daughter is anxious about it.

Teenagers don't need to pee every hour at school. They certainly don't at home. No doubt you spent weeks potty training her, teaching her how to recognise her body's signals that she might need a wee in the near future.

Secondary schools are open from say 8.30 to 3pm. She can go before school, after school and twice during the day. The disruption to lessons from even one or two kids leaving during the lesson is huge (Ive been teaching for a decade). I've yet to hear of a child getting a UTI from not being allowed to pee more than 4 times between 8am and 3pm.

The only exception is when girls come on their period. And with the use of emotional intelligence from the teacher they will usually be allowed to go (again, a discrete request at the start of a lesson rather than 30 mins moaning about not being allowed).

If there are ANY health concerns she should speak to her pastoral officer for a toilet pass. But it is unlikely that this will be issued preventatively. She has 6 hours after school to cram in the rest of her fluid intake.

@Fuuuuuckit Teenagers don't need to pee every hour at school, no. However, if they're not allowed to use the toilet when their body actually needs it, then they're going to end up peeing every chance they get so that they're not caught out. This in turn is going to make them need to pee more than they did before and only get worse. They won't concentrate on lessons. At least that's what happened to me and some of my friends.

I left school about 10 ish years ago and the whole toilet policy left me with issues. Even nowadays, if I know I have access to a toilet then I can last ages in between bathroom breaks. If I don't have access to a loo (so say a day trip to a city where there aren't any toilets, on a Sunday when everything is closed) then all I'll be thinking about is going to the loo, having an accident and won't enjoy it at all.

It really does affect some people quite badly to have all of these rules around it.

It’s just unnecessary policing designed to control, not help

Obviously you never went to a school where troops of girls would claim they had their period to go and smoke in the toilets!

YANBU OP but I agree with others - don't go in all guns blazing. Ask.

@tigerbear we have lots of different brands. Some modi bodi, primark, m&s haven't really noticed much difference between them. They are expensive. She started off with 4 pairs and just wore them during the day and used pads over night (&i kept washing them) then I bought another pair or two each month to build up enough.

She now puts them all in a separate bag by the washing machine and then I wash them all at the end. I wash them on their own, a cold rinse to start then I use bio washing powder and some anti bac stuff I bought in b&m, no fabric conditioner (it stops them being so absorbent)

Way to miss the point 🙄

They HAVE to tell you why they're asking to go to the toilet not at the allocated ridiculous set times. You might sound it that they 'trust you enough to tell you' but that's your ignorance showing.

Such a shit rule to stop a 'small minority' from going every 10 minutes (yeah right).

It's a all girl school and this never came up as an issue? Are you sure there isn't an unwritten rule that allows visit to the restrooms in case of need?

Then you are lucky. My periods as a teen lasted 7-10 days and I needed to change my tampon and pad hourly for the first 4 days.

OP

I'd ask them why they have this policy and what do they do if a child has a heavy period or a UTI?

Ask for a copy of their risk assessement.

@VioletToes I don't get what you mean? The students don't HAVE to tell me why they are going to the toilet, but sometimes they choose to. And they trust me because I have a good relationship with my students and we've taught them to be open and honest and that periods aren't something to be embarrassed about. Although I understand year 7s are still adjusting so will be more shy.
And I never said they go every 10 minutes. I said they go for 10 minutes in every lesson. Which, if they have 5 lessons a day that's 50 minutes of lost learning.