Girls not allowed to use toilet during lessons - what to do?

[tigerbear]

DD has just begun secondary at an all girls school. It’s written into the school policy that they aren’t allowed to visit the toilet either during lessons, or inbetween lessons, ONLY at morning break and lunchtime.
Aside from the dangers of ‘holding it in’, I’m concerned about the discomfort and embarrassment of young girls who are just starting their periods, and getting used to all that entails.

DD and I had a chat last night about periods (the signs are there that she may start soon), and she said she’s concerned about starting at school and it showing on her clothes. I told her that if she does start, just to ask to go to the loo, but she said they aren’t allowed.

Has anyone else ever challenged their DD’s school on this policy, and if so, what was the outcome?

@PAFMO i have checked what the actual rules are, as stated in the OP. That’s the issue. They aren’t allowed to go during lessons. The policy doesn’t state that any allowances are made for emergencies/dealing with periods.

@Harriet0101 I completely understand the reasons you’ve set out, and can see the frustrations of schools and teachers, but equally, I just can’t see shy/anxious girls like DD being comfortable going to the front of a quiet class and telling the teacher that they’ve leaked due to their period.
DD is the type to sit in silence, getting more and more embarrassed and upset (like the child I used to be).

If 12 and 14 year old NT females are having toileting accidents, they need doctors.

OP I think our daughters are at the same school. In West Sussex? I'm going to email, DD spent most of yesterday morning with her legs crossed, then had to queue for the loo for ages at lunchtime with everyone else and missed her lunch.
This is a new rule just introduced due to the problems mentioned, also vaping, so I understand the reasoning but am not happy for her to not have access when needed.

Our rules don't state it either.
So we just let teenagers wet themselves or soil themselves.
Or, hold on a minute, like every school in the land, we're told by the HT to use our common sense.

@Cazs818 and @PutinIsAWarCriminal shocking and upsetting. Can’t believe girls have received detention for walking out!!

As a teacher this pisses me off so much!!!

Yes there is a chance they’re doing it to get out of lessons or to meet up with their mates and smoke - but the majority just need the toilet!!!

My own DD did not eat or drink anything from when she woke up until after she finished school as she was worried she’d need the toilet during school.

Fortunately the rules have relaxed after so many parents complained.

It’s not just about holding it in.
It’s also the fact that there are hundreds of other students also needing to use the toilet in the same 20 minutes and many of the older ones or bullies will push past them or hang out in the toilets.

This isn’t just about girls either, boys also need the option to use the toilet.

Please complain.

The argument will be that teachers have to hold it as well which is true, but we also don’t have the worry about feeling intimidated when going at break time.

@tattychicken no, not the same location.

Be careful what you wish for. Year 7 kids are likely to be cautious and compliant. However this all changes as they get older. At DD's school, in a 40 minute lesson, up to 20 girls have walked out 'to use the loo' in a single lesson. And then do the same the lesson after. Some pack up their entire school bag because it is apparently their right to not have to discreetly hide their sanpro items (since this is the excuse) when they leave.
It is unbelievably disruptive and I have written to the school, and hope they will take action this academic year.
For your daughter - get her some period pants! She can wear these whether or not she is on her period and this might help her to feel less anxious.

If the school is so strict, and stupid/cruel enough to set this policy in the first place, I’d do a lot of googling and have a quiet word with a lawyer (or Citizens Advice) first to check if there is anything unlawful about the policy. They won’t change it on the basis of one complaint but they might if you send quite a formal letter pointing out that it’s unlawful in some way. Does seem in breach of their duty of care.

If there isn’t any legal issue you can raise, you might need to make a fuss. Complain to the head and governers, start parent petition etc.

What a nasty and stupid headteacher 😔

Our school has this rule but its not enforced like that.
The expectation is that you go at break or lunch or before/after school, but if a student asks in class they are still allowed to go.
It's just in the rules to discourage people from going and missing class. Especially because the toilets are all on the ground floors and our school is five floors high in the main building and two or three floors in all the others- it takes them ages to get there and back, especially if they dawdle or chat while they are there.

Especially with younger students, the teachers never stop someone from going- the students just know that ideally they would wait.

Workplaces do, call centres for instance. Traffic wardens, police, surgeons, delivery drivers, teachers lots of people have to plan around their breaks/toilet availability.

Constant toilet trips are distracting for the whole class and are constantly misused.

@tigerbear the policy might not say it as they won't include every exception but there will be allowances for medical reasons etc. If your child really is that shy/anxious she feels she can't ask to go to the toilet then speak to the school and see if they can get her a toilet pass, like a little card she can just hand over to the teacher instead when she needs to go. Maybe my school is just very understanding, but we would try to find a way to help her in these circumstances.
But even the strictest of schools wouldn't want the pupils to suffer unnecessarily, that's not the nature of schools or teachers. I think some parents make a big issue out of things like this without even trying to discuss with the school first to see if they can resolve the problem. Just ask to speak to he head of year or form tutor and explain the situation, don't go in there shouting about it and demanding they change the policy because that won't get you anywhere.

I'd challenge it and also ask for a toilet pass for her.

DD2 was very anxious about starting secondary school in 2020. The toilet message was so strict that she wasn't drinking her water and was holding in her wee and ended up with UTIs, which she hadn't had since she was 4/5 - starting primary school, oddly enough!

What school should be doing is teaching kindness, trust and maturity. If you then misbehave yes there is a sanction to go with it.

What they do teach is zero tolerance, suspicion, mistrust and immaturity with their ridiculous discipline rules. Many schools are like massive prisons these days, it's quite disgusting.

My sisters lessons are 100 minutes long

@Harriet0101 ok, sensible advice, thank you. I’ll have a chat with the Head of Year.

@Rosehugger Some schools have to have a zero tolerance behaviour policy and treat it like a prison - have you seen the behaviour in schools now? Fighting, swearing, throwing chairs, taking drugs in school, bullying, stealing, vandalising property, bringing knives in. I've seen it all. It goes beyond trying to teach them kindness and maturity. But that's a different topic to the OPs about going to the toilet in lesson!

It's just as bad with boys too, ds used to get very anxious about this. I told him to just leave the classroom and go and I would back him if he was punished for it. As far as I know he never did but just knowing there was an option and the world wouldn't end if he did need to leave really helped.

Its so wrong i mean.. you dont see workplaces policing adults going to the loo so why children?

Adults don't tend to meet their colleagues to smoke/vape in the toilets, have an arranged fight, get out of 10 minutes of work every hour or cause hundreds of pounds worth of vandalism.

Our school has the same policy but we can of course use teacher discretion for genuine cases. Unfortunately we can't show the majority of pupils the respect they deserve around deciding when they need the toilet because, like many other things in school, it has been spoiled by the small minority who have no respect for anyone or anything.

It's going beyond the topic but schools are unruly because they are massive, the class sizes are too big and social deprivation has massively increased in the last twelve years. If we cut secondary schools in half and halved the class sizes a lot of the problems would disappear overnight. And teachers have zero training in dealing with neurodiversity, and loads of teachers have no natural authority.

This...this annoys me so much. In this day and age that this is still a concern sucks. As a teacher myself, so long as the kid doesn't have a pattern of behavior of using the toilet as an excuse to leave class then I just wave them on.

My nieces' secondary tried this. My background is in law and I now teach myself at a different school. When I heard my niece's school had this policy (she had similar issues as your DD OP) I wrote a letter demanding they moderate the policy or I would take them to court on human rights and Convention of the rights of the child grounds. I quoted Article 3 and Article 8 of the CRC and included research reports form a number of doctors available online that showed the detriments of such a blanket toilet policy. Risk of UTi from holding on as well as the risk of weakening bladder muscles because a child goes at allotted times even when the bladder isn't strained.

Two days later I got a snippy phone call from the vice principle who thought she was going to put me in my place and talk to me like I was one of her powerless pupils. Within 5 minutes I had impressed upon her how if she didn't regulate her tone and escalate the matter to the board of governors to have the policy changed I would be doing three things: 1) Contacting the local paper to highlight the abusive behavior of staff and their inflexibility around an issue which had real health care concerns for children 2) contacting my local Councilor and MP to have them contact the board of education in order to bring this issue to their attention 3) I would be immediately contacting my very good friend who I used to work for as a solicitor and we would begin legal action.

I was not bluffing. I had been on the phone to past colleagues who were solicitors and the children's law society making enquiries about support to take a case and legal help for the practicalities. Already had drafted a nice article with a lovely mix of outraged parent voice and genuine concern for all children tone for my sister in law to submit to the local paper.

I had plans to get a group of parents together who agreed the policy was dumb and to start mass posting on twitter and the school's Facebook about it. Nothing freaks schools out worse than bad PR.

Alas, none of my lovely plans were needed. A week later a letter arrived home with my niece and an app message went out saying the policy had been changed due to pastoral care reasons, to ensure the dignity of students, mental health and physical health reasons. Now students are recommended to use the toilets between classes, at break times, at start and end of day. Students can leave class to use the toilet, but records are kept and if a pattern of a student using it as an excuse to leave a particular class is noticed, or they are using the toilet excessively a phone call home is made to put in place restrictions for that particular student whereby they have to use a 'token' system to be allowed to leave class to use the toilet.

Contact the school and politely put your case to them in writing and verbally for them to change this policy. If they don't...then I implore you to talk to other parents. Start a petition. Create a stink on their social media pages. Contact children's legal charities. Nothing changes unless you push. It might be a bit embarrassing being that parent but it's for the good of your kid.

I don't agree with schools locking toilets or having a blanket ban on going to the loo during lessons, but I do think it's something children have to learn - you go to the loo at break times and lunch time; for girls, if you are due your period you are prepared as well as you can be (if you think it will start that day, wear a towel).
If you go at every break time, surely you'll never go more than a couple of hours without a trip to the loo?

Decades ago when I was at school, if anyone asked to go to the loo during lessons, they were allowed to, but it rarely happened.

Awful policy. I'd have a word but also invest in several pairs of period pants - it's expensive but they are v good. Modibodi are probs the best but loads of places now do cheaper ones and I'm sure they will reduce the anxiety you daughter has re periods.

Also children who are well-behaved and want to learn get punished because of zero tolerance policies as well. Then it just makes them hate school, because whatever you do, you get in trouble. And if you are going to get in trouble anyway, may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb and do something really naughty.

Decades ago when I was at school, if anyone asked to go to the loo during lessons, they were allowed to, but it rarely happened

Yes, same here. That should be the case. The problem is being told you absolutely can't go to the toilet in lessons and there may be punishment for even asking.

I’d challenge this as well. My school didn’t have this policy as such but asking was always met with sighs and eye rolls. I developed anxiety about needing to go and being unable to and ended up having panic attacks. I would spent the whole of first break just queueing for the toilet and a lot of lunchtime as well. It was miserable. I was also scared to drink a lot so basically had sips of fluid all day long!