Concerned UK "Co-Ed" Independent Schools are Sexist

[squiffymum]

Dear Mumsnet

Apologies for the somewhat inflammatory subject line...

We're currently applying for independent co-ed schools and I've just discovered that pretty much all of them have a 60/40 boy to girl ratio, rather than being truly co-ed (50/50).

Frankly, I'm deeply upset and pretty disgusted by this. It's 2022, not 1822. When I try and unpick the reasons for this ratio... it's sexism, plain and simple. And we're sending a signal to school-age students that this is acceptable and normal? I asked one of the schools for the rationale: it was "so that the boys aren't dominated". As parents of a daughter, are we truly expected to stump up independent fees (for the same fees as the boys) for her to be "dominated"?

Also, it also presumably means it's harder for girls to get into these schools than boys. How is this even legal - surely it's discriminatory?

Is anyone else upset by this, or am I all alone in my outrage? ;-)

(Background is - we're moving out of London and wish to send our daughter (ten) and later our son (still only seven) to an independent school - ideally, the same one. They're currently in the public/state system, however we feel they'll benefit from smaller class sizes. We are looking across a wide area of the South West, from Portsmouth to Bath - even up to Cheltenham. I can't believe we are willing to pay good money but there are no options that aren't single sex or effectively single sex ("co-ed" schools with 60/40 boy/girl ratios are boys schools that accept girls to my mind). Per the above - it's 2022!)

If I could afford to pay for school I would be sending my daughter to a single sex school.

Girls have better outcomes academically and socially in a single sex environment because they benefit from the teacher not having to spend more time and effort on the boys. They are also less likely to show stereotypical bias in their choice of subjects and choose "boy subjects" if they enjoy or are good at them because there are fewer social influences pushing them towards "girl subjects".

Boys tend to do better at mixed sex schools, socially they benefit from the presence of girls.

If there is a 60:40 bias towards boys in the schools you are considering then the negative impact of mixed dex schools on girls will be even worse than it is at state schools.

In our area more girls go to single sex schools than boys therefore less of them apply to coed schools.

As everyone said there are lots of girls schools and fewer all-boys. The result is an uneven split in co- ed schools.

When I lived in Australia my friend did a uni research project that showed parents were prepared (and did) pay more for their sons education. Most private schools are single sex there BTW.

I wonder if it is similar in the uk, which could explain the ratio. Supply basically.

Thank you for your response Magenta82.

Yes, I think I tend to agree with you. I benefited from that environment. I went to a single-sex girls school and studied maths, physics etc (I'm an electrical engineer).

However, I had hoped that by now (30 years later) things had moved on. It seems bonkers that the only option for our daughter to avoid sexism at an independent secondary school is to go to a single-sex school - an option that itself seems sexist? Also, I found the transition out of a single-sex environment to university quite hard (as did my husband, who also went to a single-sex school).

Otherwise it seems we will need to revert to looking at state co-ed. We are quite happy with that, however both children have ADHD/sensory issues and really would benefit significantly from smaller, quieter classrooms with fewer distractions.

Having not been aware of this bias until today, as these schools are advertised as "co-ed" (!) we have wasted weeks. We haven't looked at single sex at all. Also we have one of each so - logistics! We both work. It just seems vaguely ridiculous that there aren't any true co-ed private schools.

Wow. That is sad but enlightening. We're actually living in Australia temporarily at the moment for my job (long story) - this makes me feel better about our decision to move back to the UK. Though a similar study in the UK may yield similar results I guess? Yes most private schools in Australia are only now making the move to co-ed. It's a pretty conservative place overall.

Thank you, the insight regarding prevalence of girls' schools makes sense and is very helpful. I'm feeling a little calmer! I'm from New Zealand originally, so I find the UK education system pretty difficult to navigate. Though it seems everyone does!
It's all rather circular however - girls get sent to girls schools because there aren't suitable ratios at the co-ed schools and so girls get sent to girls schools...

It's all rather circular however - girls get sent to girls schools because there aren't suitable ratios at the co-ed schools and so girls get sent to girls schools...

no, girls get send to girls schools because people want their girls to be at all girls schools. But it sounds like you’ve made your mind up that it’s because it’s sexist so why bother asking?

No - girls get sent to girls schools because research and experience suggest that a single sex environment provides better outcomes for girls.

Consequently parents who have the benefit of choice often choose single sex schools for their daughters. Which may mean that a smaller proportion of independently educated girls attend co-ed schools (though I’m not quite interested enough to chase up statistics).

But the response you had from the school you asked was disappointing - hope you can find somewhere more supportive and forward thinking.

I was being tongue in cheek as in our case, our preference for our daughter would be a co-ed school over a single-sex, however as the co-eds aren't truly co-ed, we'd pick single-sex - thus perpetuating the problem. I appreciate it may only be us that feel like this.

I was being tongue in cheek as in our case, our preference for our daughter would be a co-ed school over a single-sex, however as the co-eds aren't truly co-ed, we'd pick single-sex - thus perpetuating the problem. I appreciate it may only be us that feel like this.

What does “truly” coed mean to you though? Just because somewhere doesn’t have a precise 50:50 split doesn’t mean there aren’t equally good opportunities for all the children. I’d be bothered if it meant that the potential friendship pool for my DD was too small but most secondaries have at least 120 in a year group which is plenty. It sounds like the school you spoke to phrased things badly and it’s worth specifically asking them what they meant by what they said. Other than that I personally think you’re blowing it a bit out of proportion.

Again would also be bothered if number of girls meant that opportunities are reduced. But if they’re not then it’s not a massive issue. If girls’ sports are a big thing for you then single sex girls schools usually do better as they have a proportionately larger pool of girls to select from and are often full of hideously overly competitive helicopter parents and tiger mums whose sole ambition in life is curating their child’s CV

I worked for several years at a coed independent school in London. It recruited 50:50 and has done so for years. The same foundation has 2 single sex schools, giving parents a choice. So it’s not true that all indie coeds have more boys.

Have a look at sports too. Lots of independents seem to split sports into boy/girl options and organise all the competitions they enter and scholarships they offer around this. So hockey, tennis, netball and dance compulsory for girls and rugby, football, cricket for boys etc. A football playing girl may be fighting an uphill battle.

Thanks Totters. Yes, some other comments have pointed this out. I was unaware that there were so many more girls than boys schools and agree that's likely to be the primary cause of the ratios being out of kilter.

I'm aware of the research. I wonder however if it is just delaying the problem. I went from an all-female environment at school to an all-male environment in my career and therefore had to transition and adapt to that later, if that makes sense.

Anyway, yes the school was a little out of line - particularly as we're applying primarily for my daughter! I think we are likely to switch to single sex options for her now (the research..).

@squiffymum the reality of girls schools can be quite different though. Some can be very bitchy, catty, lots of bullying problems. Depends entirely on the parents but be aware. We have lots of girls schools round us and there are a couple which I have heard awful stories about in terms of the girls and the parents. And the endless quest for perfection.

*on the girls and parents

Thanks gerispringer. Yes, that's a good point, the London co-eds all seem to have a 50:50 ratio. We've been living in London for twenty years, so I think that lulled us into thinking it was the norm. However we're moving out of London and can't find a single co-ed outside London with a 50:50 ratio, other than Wells Cathedral in Somerset. (I would love to be proved wrong as we're actively looking!)

Hmm... thank you for that heads-up.

I came here to say this.

As an engineer OP, you sound very unscientific and less by emotion

Not that it makes any difference to you really, but have you been able to look at stats broken down by day pupils and boarders? Our boarders are predominantly international, and very boy heavy.

FWIW there aren't any boys' schools left round here. The boys' schools have gone mixed, and the girls' schools have stayed single sex.

Haha, neither child shows any interest in sport so hopefully we'll dodge that one altogether! I am suspicious of a 60/40 ratio as I feel that would be quite visible.. however if it's genuinely because more applicants are boys than girls (because the girls are going to single sex schools) rather than a bias from the school, I do feel better about it. I work in an entirely male field and, having being clobbered with it for years, I have to admit I'm sensitive to bias. Also, my husband went to an independent UK boys boarding school that admitted girls in the sixth form. Even to his (then) sheltered teenage mind, he was appalled at the way the girls were treated by the boys. I would hope the schools have changed since then (30 years ago), but possibly not.

You should be aware that all self-respecting independent schools place huge emphasis on sport - so your children will be obliged to spend a fair amount of time on it once they move to their new school(s).

This bothers me too OP, as I think it's a deliberate choice, but it is changing. There are quite a few 50:50 schools outside London: Sevenoaks, Kings Canterbury, Oakham, Fettes are some of them. One easy way of seeing the split is by looking at the rather silly Tatler Schools Guide online- it gives the breakdown of boy and girl day and boarding pupils for each school featured.

https://www.tatler.com/article/tatler-schools-guide-2021

My other bugbear is schools that offer neither football or rugby for girls!