Super strict schools like the Swan in Oxford?

[Deisogn]

We went to see the swan school in Oxford and came away fairly horrified. The no talking in the corridors or halls seemed fairly extreme. The punishment for talking to a friend was isolation which seemed harsh and not in the best interest of the child? I do understand trying minimise disruption but at what cost? They don't stop emotionally developing at 11. Surely all those soft skills come from unstructured interactions. It seems like it would produce very brittle kids and SEN need not apply or they'd spent the entire time in isolation. I wondered what others thought of the super strict school model?

There were certainly a lot of children in the first year group at the Swan (current yr 9 I think) who had no choice but to go there - the applications that year only were dual, and I heard of children from Marston and Northway allocated schools in Abingdon and Witney - so of course they had to accept the Swan ahead of a school miles away and difficult to get to. This area had been becoming a bit of a black hole for school allocation and I don't know if that's changed at all.

I read a lot of discussion that the location for the Swan was not the right place in terms of where an additional secondary was needed, and was inclined to agree, for a number of reasons.

I would imagine there is an issue of finding a large enough site in Oxford. Expanding the existing schools might have been better. I would be cross if my only school was this one. I totally agree that Witney and Abingdon are awful options too. Makes me wonder what happened to school planning! Someone must have been sitting on this probity for years at Oxfordshire CC.

@Phewthatwasclose a 14yr old with no social media would be literally missing out on entire social life in our area.. plus they need to learn to navigate it

We have a super strict school in our area with longer days & electives, glossy brochures etc.
But the reality is that loads of kids just don't bother with electives. They learn to swerve detentions. Fights don't happen in corridors but they do in playground areas and on public transport etc
They also aren't allowed to take GCSEs if they won't get top grades

@bluetowers
I find that strict parents like this control every aspect of their DCs lives. They wouldn’t want DC to have a social life of their own making. So their DC won’t heed social media. The free time for these children will be curated for them by the parents. I’ve seen parents like this in action and they live in a bubble. Only grandparents babysit, the children don’t travel in other parents’ cars, they don’t allow mixing with “unacceptable” children, they insist on a “traditional” upbringing and get utterly stressed about their DC mixing with the wrong types at secondary school. The Swan must answer their prayers!

@bluetowers @TizerofFizz

That's exactly it!

Incidentally, there is a thread going at the moment where a year 7 pupil was given isolation because they forgot to bring their planner in twice.

The mind boggles!

The Swan is a relatively new school, isn't it? Staff are presumably trying to establish excellent routines which enable the best possible behaviour in class. Quiet corridors are a part of this. Talk will happen as planned by teachers in class, and in the playground. Sharp uniform rules encourage self-respect and respect for the school. Strong rules put in place by a strong SLT will deliver good all round outcomes for your child. Boisterous corridors/ low-level disruption in class/ tatty uniform = high teacher turnover, anxious and unhappy students who don't learn as much as they could.

Michaela school does have an amazing progress 8 score and a pretty good attainment 8 score. Both scores better than our lovely, highly sought after state comp in a very middle class area. The number of exams taken by pupils is lower on average 6.3 compared to our 8.2 and only 3% sitting triple science which seems very low. Despite the excellent results of Michaela I would still choose my local comp over Michaela, I think my kids would be miserable at a super strict school.

“Talk will happen as planned by teachers”!!! Oh dear. Teachers really are not the best people to instigate chat! Can you imagine! False polite chat! We had to endure this at school if s teacher joined your table at lunchtime. Fix it wax awful. Silence mostly - except for asking for the water jug to be passed around! Children need to express themselves and most can he trusted to behave. Why do schools treat DC like prisoners? It’s demeaning, controlling and not really aiding a broad education in terms of DC showing they can behave well. I thought my old grammar was strict. These schools are way beyond what we had.

Does it matter if uniforms are a bit scruffy? Who really cares? What wasted resources in checking it all the time. We had to pull our skirts down in the 60s. Too much leg was noticed!

I think it is easy to denigrate the super strict schools if you already expect your child to come out with 9 or more good grade GCSEs, within a school and peer group that does that as the norm.
Easy to denigrate a school that expects all questions to be answered in complete sentences using good English when you effectively model this at home every day.

But in today's world, speaking coherently and having those GCSE passes is all important. If your background, your neighbourhood, and the peer group are such that these kind of things aren't a given, maybe suddenly schools like Michaela look like a way up and out and a way to improve the chances of your kids. Making the most of every single minute at school by not tolerating time wasting can be a way to balance out families where time or inclination to help are lacking.

@TeenMinusTests

The area The Swan School serves is lovely. It’s very residential and encompasses North Oxford which is super expensive. Yes, there are some social housing areas included (not that this necessarily produces DC who cannot speak in sentences!) but this school isn’t facing the difficulties that some areas have. Do you actually know Oxford?? I cannot see any justification for this stance at all. I have no doubt the vast majority of parents are decent people. They haven’t bred monsters. They no doubt would have liked a place at The Cherwell School. Why did this free school decide their strict attitude was needed for this area? It’s not poor performing and all the things you think parents should provide, undoubtedly are! You can even hire a punt on the Cherwell just down the road! This is, largely, a fantastic area of Oxford. I would love to live there!

I'd be very interested to see what % put it as 1st choice. That would be a guage of popularity v others near by

When we looked around secondary schools, we saw one (an academy) which has ridiculous rules and the kids had to stand up when an adult went in the classroom so on an open morning it was quite disruptive! They have the same punishments for small things like forgetting your water bottle as for more major things-crazy. The strict rules didn't stop a kid in one class shouting out about a girl in our group who he knew from his previous school and the whole class just erupted.
DD didn't see that school but DP and I hated it, DD would have hated it too.
Super strict schools might suit a minority of kids but not for us.

Tizer I was speaking generically, not specifically.

Not to the extent of quiet corridors or specific chat topics, but DD's school is quite strict and oversubscribed for a few years now. Their rules are aimed at having the pupils ready to learn which is what they go to school for. So they are expected to turn up with the right attitude as well as the right books/equipment. Everyone can have an off day, but chatty pupils that constantly disrupt others are really annoying.

I used to be so anti strict schools but I have changed my mind. I think that for some students they are very reassuring because boundaries are very clear.

Students at the Michaela School look so happy and perform so well.

My daughter was quite unhappy in middle school because she found some of the students disruptive. That changed with streaming in high school and she settled much better.

My son and his friends adore the very strict teachers, they like the black and whiteness of the set up and seem to flourish. He also loves army cadets (where they are basically barked at for two hours)

There is a big difference though between good classroom control and meanness. So it does depend on how "strict" is defined.

@bluetowers
As I understand it, there were no options nearby for some parents. They were offered schools that were not in Oxford! So presumably parents would choose this school over travelling for miles as it’s walkable.

Army cadets for some would be the equivalent of hell. If takes all sorts but many DC don’t like being barked at and existing in regimented schools. Chatting with friends in corridors simply isn’t the same as being unruly. I would anticipate most of the Oxford children in this catchment would be capable of good behaviour.

Ready to learn is a perfectly acceptable aim. Silencing children in all other areas is not acceptable in my view. Of course Michaela has very good PR - would you expect the head to ever say she was maybe mistaken? Of course not. Also you never know if these well supported DC would have done just as well elsewhere. The more challenging DC barely gets near the place!

Yes they may have put Swan as second choice etc and had a Go getting in somewhere else first

The Swan will likely be on my list when it is time to apply. Doubtful we will need it, as we’re in a (different) catchment for a good school and everyone in catchment usually gets in. But I think DD1 would do well there.

Cherwell is nigh on impossible to get in unless you bought the right house. It has a very rigid admissions hierarchy based in the main on location.

The PAN is 270 children at The Cherwell. That is a lot of places. Their admissions criteria is fairly standard. Catchment is operated as a final decider and that’s normal for Oxfordshire. As it is in Bucks where I live. However they get more applicants than places so inevitably people are disappointed.

@TizerorFizz you've maybe not clocked that the catchment for Swan extends right the way up to cover Barton, which is an area that is one of the more challenging in Oxford. What I've heard from professionals is that there's quite a large contingent of kids at Swan who probably do need the boundaries in the same way Michaela was designed to provide.

That said, I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole for either of my kids - and I feel very strongly indeed that it's completely immoral to introduce a state school into an area with little choice re school places, but give it such an extreme ethos when parents effectively have to send their kids there. Awful.

Well yes but Barton isn’t the majority of the catchment. And why base the ethos of a school based on a minority? As you clearly identify, you don’t want an extreme ethos. I’m sure the reasonable parents of Barton don’t either! They do exist you know!

Hardly shabby areas listed by the school!

My children would thrive there. I don’t see the problem with enforcing a rule of silence at changeover time. It’s fine to run and play and chat at break times. Not the rest of the time. If you can’t be quiet for a few minutes while you walk from maths to English then blimey. I know a local school where they don’t do this and most bullying/pushing/nastiness happens in those corridors. Why do people have issues with school discipline? School is for learning not being allowed to mouth off constantly.