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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Worried ds is going to be kicked out of Y12. If he is, what happens next...?

58 replies

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:34

DS1 started sixth form in September. He did not work for his GCSEs, but did quite well. Obviously things were difficult for him - as they were for all of them - during the lockdowns, he certainly struggled with online learning. Once school opened again, he got into quite a lot of trouble in year 11 for his consistent lateness, which is not at all excusable given we live five minutes walk from the school, but overall, he seemed happier being at school than he had with the home learning.

Anyway, I had hoped that sixth form would provoke a bit of a change in his behaviour/attitude, that it would be a fresh start. This has not been the case. Within two weeks, I had been contacted by the head of sixth form saying they were worried about his lack of engagement (not handing in homework, consistently being late, sometimes very late, being disrespectful to teachers). I talked to him, explained that I thought the logical conclusion of him carrying on like this would be him being kicked out, he said he would change. He hasn't. He's been late almost every day (despite us getting him up in good time, taking him coffee, cajoling him etc). It's almost as if he is doing it on purpose (I've suggested this to him and he says not, but I think he must be). He has not handed in several homeworks (again, we have asked him about it again and again and he says he has done it).

I don't know what to do. He's nearly 17, it's very difficult to make him do anything. I've tried being very on his case and getting off his case and everything in-between. Does anyone know what can/might happen in this kind of situation (how long will a school put up with someone not turning up on time, for example?). And if the worst happens, is it a case of having to find an alternative, given he has to be in education until he is 18?

Sorry for long post.

OP posts:

HunkyPunk · 05/10/2021 14:38

God, they can be such hard work at this ‘neither child nor adult’ age. I’m sorry, no advice, but loads of empathy.

FelicityPike · 05/10/2021 14:40

Is it not he has to be in education or training? Would he go for a job/ apprenticeship?

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:43

HunkyPunk - thank you :-). Felicity, yes, this is the case. I guess we need to look at what kind of apprenticeships are available. Tbh, I'm concerned he wouldn't want to apply himself at anything...

OP posts:

TreeTurningYellow · 05/10/2021 14:44

There is no legal requirement for him to be in education post 16, this is completely different to school. They can kick him out and they will.

You need to talk to him about what happens if they do, what are his plans? He needs to see that realistically he needs to be doing something if he isn't doing A levels. He also needs to know that if he fails year 12 he cannot resit the same subjects at the same sixth form. Why would they give him a place again?

You need to talk to him about the long term implications of his choices now.

TreeTurningYellow · 05/10/2021 14:45

Take or restrict the things that matter, phone, xbox/playstation etc. These are privileges not rights.

PineappleWilson · 05/10/2021 14:45

DS in further down secondary, but we're having conversations as his parents about letting him fail, because he won't learn otherwise. I put breakfast on the table and maybe ask if he's up once in passing but that's it. He has an alarm, he has a bus to catch, he knows he has to be out by X time to get a lift with me and by Y time if he's walking to the bus. It's his choice.

Tell your DS this. He's old enough to be working so should be taking responsibility for himself. You'll put a cup of coffee on the dining table, but he's what 17? 18? He can get himself up and out. In the nicest possible way, stop parenting him getting up. If he could get up and dressed at 10 he can do it now.

Maybe give a local college a call about what happens if he drops out of sixth form - whether he can get an apprenticeship, for example, whether they require him to wait until next September before starting something. If he does drop out, and can't get into another type of training, I'd be expecting him to work and contribute to your household. There are PT jobs out there now, especially in retail and hospitality. Telling him this in advance may help give him the kick that he needs.

Frymetothemoon · 05/10/2021 14:45

Maybe just sit him down and be brutally honest, along the lines of "You are now about to be expelled from school. What is your plan?" If it's not school, he needs to come up with something else realistic

TreeTurningYellow · 05/10/2021 14:46

Argh, pressed too soon, how will he pay for these things in future himself? These are things he needs to think about. The bank of Mum and Dad and house of Mum and Dad isn't available forever.

Maverick197 · 05/10/2021 14:48

This sounds like my DS. He did the bare minimum during year 10 and 11, but managed to do OK in his GCSEs. He was all enthusiastic during the first weeks of Sixth Form, but has now fallen into his bad habits of being late and not handing in homework. It doesn't help that he has picked subject that require quite a lot of essay writing. I think my DS would have been better off doing an apprenticeship, but he wants to do what all his friends are doing which is A-levels. I am at my wits end. He doesn't listen to me and my DH at all anymore. Part of me thinks that a threat from the school to kick him out might straighten him out, I don't think they will put up with 2 years of this. DS will have to learn the hard way and as a parent it's painful to watch, but they need to learn that their actions have consequences.
Sorry I don't have any advise, just wanted to say that you are not alone!

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:49

Thanks. I take your point Pineapple about not parenting the getting up, I suppose I'm doing it in part to satisfy myself that I tried.

There's absolutely no way he is going to sit around here doing nothing; this is my biggest fear. I think I need to sit him down and spell it out in the most concrete of terms.

OP posts:

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 14:51

Sorry to hear you are going through something similar Maverick. I think the only way to learn is the hard way unfortunately. What's extra galling is that DS has such an arrogant attitude, he thinks he knows EVERYTHING, when in fact he is hopelessly naive!

OP posts:

TeenMinusTests · 05/10/2021 14:53

He is meant to be in education for the next 2 years, but if he isn't no one will really care (though you should inform child benefit and that would stop).
have conversations with him re:

if he is kicked out what will he do
what support will you continue to provide (eg maybe you would provide bed and board, but not phone contract, clothes, any other money etc)

It is getting too late for him to switch to a BTEC this year as he's missed 3 weeks already, but that could be an option for next Sept (nd he could do 2 years). You may find somewhere that would take him.

Is he doing A levels because that's what everyone does. Did you & he consciously look at other options before?

VanCleefArpels · 05/10/2021 14:54

You could present the nuclear option:

If he drops out and doesn’t engage with any other educational route or work then he’s on his own. This means, in practice, claiming benefits (in order to pay for phone, spends etc) , cooking his own meals, doing his own laundry etc. If he feels he doesn’t need any more education ask him to do a job search based on having only GCSE and see what (little) comes up. Stress the absolute limitations he will face in his life. Time due tough love!!

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 14:55

@TreeTurningYellow

Take or restrict the things that matter, phone, xbox/playstation etc. These are privileges not rights.

What's that going to achieve? You can't punish a young adult into engaging.

OP, what is really going on? Are A levels really what he wants to do? What's stopping him from going in on time? Is something worrying him? Sometimes it's hard when you've been used to everything being easy to find that things have ramped up a notch. I found O levels easy, and everyone thought I should be good at academic stuff as I was really clever, but it really isn't for me. Work, where I am achieving something concrete and "real" is much better for me.

Is there any possibility that he has ADHD?

heyitsA · 05/10/2021 14:59

Maybe sixth form isn't for him? It's hard to be enthusiastic and hard working in something that you don't enjoy, and at his age he probably doesn't see the seriousness of what will happen if he carries on this way. When I was that age I was lazy and even with my parents and teachers constantly telling me how important education is, I didn't listen and now I definitely regret messing up back then!
It could be worth looking into college or apprenticeships, then he can chose one subject that he is interested in and that could motivate him into working harder, if he done well at GCSE without trying he clearly is smart, he just needs to do something with it!

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 14:59

But I also agree, maybe let him fail, he learns what is really important to him and it isn't the end of the world. I ended up with only 2 A levels (having started 4!) and dropping out of uni after a year. Things turned out well in the end after a couple of years of dead end jobs before I found my way. There's always another step forward.

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:01

I don't know what is really going on but I am aware that something must be. That's what I mean about it kind of being 'on purpose'. He is making a choice - conscious or not - not to get to school on time and not to do his work. I do feel that if I could get to the bottom of this, it would really help.

Re ADHD, well yes, possibly. This is something I have wondered about, and the school did assess him a couple of years back, concluding he had minor issues with working memory, on the borderline, but enough to get him 25% extra exam time. What makes you ask that question, out of interest?

OP posts:

heyitsA · 05/10/2021 15:01

I have seen some people say let him fail, please don't!! All this will do is lower his self esteem and give him less options in the future!
I am saying this from experience.

LIZS · 05/10/2021 15:08

Is it the subjects, style of teaching, friendship group etc? If he was disillusioned before gcses it is unlikely to change unless he moves. He could restart y12 next year, maybe at a college doing btec/t levels instead if he might be better suited to those. If he drops out you will lose child benefit unless he is still in education or training.

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 15:09

@newdocket It's something I've been reading about for my son, who had trouble getting himself going for A levels, revising, doing practice, even though it was what he wanted to be doing - finding it hard to get started, not doing what you know you should be doing, getting distracted. I wonder about it for myself too! (Reading on Mumsnet instead of getting on with my staff reports...)

SMabbutt · 05/10/2021 15:12

Taking his phone etc away isn't about punishing him into being an adult. If he doesn't work, be it school or a job, he won't have the means to have any luxury stuff. If these things are being funded by his parents on the understanding he is studying so the are willing to subsidise him. If he won't study or work there's no reason for anyone to pay for these things for him. It's just about natural consequences for his actions and lack of responsibility

TheSmallAssassin · 05/10/2021 15:19

He's not a five year old! I can't see that kind of strategy working for any teenager, let alone an intelligent one. From what the OP says, I'm sure he knows rationally what needs to happen, he's having trouble motivating himself to get on with it. Taking away his stuff won't magically solve the problem for any of them!

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:24

He's very happy with his friends. He priorities spending time with them over everything else. I know that this (sometimes, often, I am not sure) involves smoking weed, which does worry me.

I think part of the issue might be lack of interest in some of the subjects he is doing (he really loves one and does light up when he talks about it) but is ambivalent about the rest. He does struggle with organisation and I have witnessed him finding it really difficult to get started on things.

The teacher who referred him for the SEN assessment a couple of years back remarked that he wasn't sure whether he might have some kind of attentional issue or whether he is just lazy. Which I thought was a bit blunt, but possibly on the money.

OP posts:

Original poster

newdocket · 05/10/2021 15:25

*prioritises

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Anselve · 05/10/2021 15:29

Newdocket and smallassassin

DS1 at similar stage - did well at GCSEs but came out of lockdown having lost all momentum. I’ve not organised him logistically since about year 7 so when he stuffed up Year 12 and did badly in his mocks it was a big surprise. He was refusing to go to school and I thought he was being difficult but actually he was hugely anxious. It was like his brain wasn’t working the way it always had and he didn’t know what to do.

There is ADHD in our family and his siblings have it. It affects them a lot and DS1 was the one who never had any problems.

So we got him tutors over summer and he pulled his marks right up and he was cooperative and willing because he does want to do well. But I think lockdown and the step up to A levels has shown that he’s reached a ceiling attention wise and we need to look into that further.

Punishing him would have been counter productive. He’s almost an adult and he couldn’t articulate what was going on. He’s having CBT for anxiety and keeping on with the tutors as he likes that one to one and I feel like he’s back to his old self.

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