D of E - how relevant to university applications?

[TwoLeftElbows]

Posting on this board because it's an educational question for secondary age.

Question in the title really - how important or otherwise is D of E for university applications these days? DD is at a very middle class, high achieving comp and quite a few of her friends are doing bronze D of E, mostly "for their uni applications". One even told her it's essential. DD is very academic, articulate and passionate about her subjects and I thought universities are less interested in extra-curricular box ticking these days, but is there still value in D of E? I think she will cover all the elements in her existing activities really, apart from planning the walk, so I'm not sure she would gain loads in personal development from it.

She does do a voluntary activity and a club so she has some stuff to talk about, but not masses compared with friends who do sports, music exams etc. I am not sure what to advise her.

Dd1 was interviewed and she said they spent most of the time talking about her sport! (not a sports degree)

My son did Gold and it has been a good addition to his statement and CV. He was never big on sports, so DoE has given him different experiences to talk about, especially the volunteering part was useful during interviews for summer jobs.

If your child already has lots of other interests and activities to talk about, I don't think DoE is essential

If she’s already doing volunteering and takes part in clubs, that’s half her D of E done. So why not do it? It’s far more that the expedition, my DD has just finished hers and is glad she did it, despite being the least outdoorsy person.

I agree that people who have bronze DofE are ten a penny these days. I interview for Camp America and it seems everyone has it and then does absolutely nothing on a volunteering basis or improving their skills afterwards - it’s like a box ticking exercise and they look surprised when I ask them about continuing to give back to society.

Compare and contrast with someone who has gold. I know that they are more likely to be doing it because they enjoy it. Talking about their expedition is always a great conversation starter and the great majority have continued to volunteer after finishing it.

I don’t think it holds much sway on U.K. university applications these days though but definitely does help with job interviews. It DOES help with US university applications though, especially Ivy League, where they look at a candidates whole “CV”. They expect community involvement and evidence of team working as standard.

@ShortBacknSides I don’t know where you’ve got this information
It's because that is the way things used to be and many parents and teachers haven't got the message that it's changed. I only found out by reading Mumsnet.

However a broad set of skills and experiences (whether obtained via DoE or not) is still useful for job applications and probably for apprenticeship applications too.

I've been doing university admissions interviews in my field for over 20 years now @Priorengaijment and I've rarely (if ever) asked about DofE awards. So it's not a recent thing.

I do ask about extra-curricular activities if they are relevant. But I also know that a lot of families don't have the resources or time or opportunities to do loads of extra-curricular stuff, and as I teach at a RG university where we are trying to widen our intake, I don't want to inadvertently discriminate against applicants from lower socio-economic groups.

Probably more useful when applying for jobs

Unis have such a narrow focus whereas jobs want a more interesting person

How many universities actually interview now anyway? I thought it was only Oxford and Cambridge??

I agree Bryony, but only the Gold Award.
Schools that "expect" whole year groups to do their DofE do the whole award a disservice.

@HelloDulling

If she’s already doing volunteering and takes part in clubs, that’s half her D of E done. So why not do it? It’s far more that the expedition, my DD has just finished hers and is glad she did it, despite being the least outdoorsy person.

Well yes, but equally, why do it? How is it far more than the expedition if you're already doing the other bits?

@houselikeashed

How many universities actually interview now anyway? I thought it was only Oxford and Cambridge??

She may well be looking at one of those, if it makes a difference.

@shortbacknsides I'm really cheered by your posts. I'd love DD to be able to go to interview and show the way she engages with new ideas and thinks round corners. That's what makes her a good candidate really. It's not diminished by not having grade 6 clarinet, or by going to a school that doesn't have prefects and house captains.

I agree with @HelloDulling if she is already doing the volunteering, skills and sports elements then is it that onerous for her to enrol to do it? My reasoning is slightly different - DS just completed his bronze, probably 80% of the year group did it. A friends son didn’t and she said he regretted it as he felt quite left out after as it was all they talked about for a number of weeks!

I think it’s a nice way of mixing outside your friendship group and realising what you are capable of. That said, if it’s really not for her then I wouldn’t do it just for uni applications. As an aside, you can jump straight to silver in year 10 but have to do more months of each section.

Top universities are looking mostly for enthusiasm and engagement with the subject above and beyond the A level syllabus.
It is now widely recognised that not all children have the same opportunities (money and parental support) for overseas volunteering, extra curricular activities and internships.
Academics and wider engagement with subject is of paramount importance - your DD won't be disadvantaged if she doesn't do D of E.

@ShortBacknSides

I've been doing university admissions interviews in my field for over 20 years now *@Priorengaijment* and I've rarely (if ever) asked about DofE awards. So it's not a recent thing.

I do ask about extra-curricular activities if they are relevant. But I also know that a lot of families don't have the resources or time or opportunities to do loads of extra-curricular stuff, and as I teach at a RG university where we are trying to widen our intake, I don't want to inadvertently discriminate against applicants from lower socio-economic groups.

When I applied for uni and jobs 30 years ago, bronze Duke of Edinburgh was pretty much the only extra curricular activity on my CV apart from grade 2 piano and grade 1 cello which I gave up aged about 13 but still included. It didn't stop me getting into a Russell Group uni, and I can't remember being asked about them, but it made me feel better about my application. More to the point, the DoE expedition was one of the most memorable highlights of my mid-teens which were otherwise mostly spent doing homework and watching tv. My school had hardly any extra curricular activity, and there wasn't much to do in my area that I knew of (no google back then) so the experience stood out. Only about 6 of us did it though - so others had less. When I went to uni, I could see others had done a lot more so had more to talk about. I am from the generation whose children are now teenagers, and we encourage them to grab opportunities. They don't need an award attached but I do know plenty of teenagers who wouldn't have done much with their time if their parents hadn't encouraged them to do DoE.

twoLeftElbows
If she is looking at Oxbridge, then DofE is not relevant at all.

The statements/interviews are about the subject only.

Oxbridge very clearly state they are not interested in DofE or grade 8 clarinet etc etc.

DS had no DofE, no volunteering, no work experience, no tutoring. He did alright!

More to the point, the DoE expedition was one of the most memorable highlights of my mid-teens which were otherwise mostly spent doing homework and watching tv

That's the reason to do anything, really, isn't it? And anything which gives young people something more to do than only computer games & watching television or recreational shopping has to be good.

But it's not about "getting into a good university" - it should be about enabling children to find out what they love doing, what they enjoy, what they're good at.

My life was packed with all the activities which were standard for upper-middle class girls - it means I have a very varied and rich experience of childhood to draw on (competition level showing/riding horses, racing sailing dinghies, ballet, youth theatre, Girl Guides, and a bit of tennis, although I was rubbish at tennis). But that was a privileged life, living between the countryside and a city, and parents to take me around, and pay for it all.

It meant that at university I could very widely socially, but university was also wonderful for the opportunity to focus on what was the real passion of my life - and I've never left, really

My ds has had a great offer from an RG University for September (🤞 for Tuesday!)

No DofE.

But he has a genuine interest in his subject and is enthusiastic about it, has volunteered at a foodbank since he was 16 and has played 2 sports at county team level.

DfE is nice I'm sure but don't do it just to have something to put on your PS. It's expensive and there are plenty of local volunteering groups that can use help!

How many universities actually interview now anyway? I thought it was only Oxford and Cambridge??

Manchester interviews a lot.
Then particular courses interview a lot - teaching, Occupational Therapy, SaLT, medicine, I presume most of the courses where people will end up working with people (other than colleagues).

DS had no DofE, no volunteering, no work experience ....... not something to recommend though. I mean, hopefully he will be fine, but I know many employers, and people who filter applications for jobs who would put an application like that on the 'no' pile when filtering through hundreds, or even thousands of applications.

Interviews depend on the course as well as the uni. Health care type courses will normally interview. A lot of arts courses do.

For those who say it is all down to grades, how does this work on a course like medicine where most candidates are top grades? How do you distinguish?

My ds is doing DoE which I am glad about as it gets him out of his room. I think getting out of his room and trying new things will be important when he gets to uni and applies for jobs. If you don't need DoE to incentivise them to do this then it may not be usefull.

@Tibtom I guess not on D of E! Medics have specific extra entrance exams now I think, and students study for these alongside A levels. Then you'd fill up the personal statement with subject specific experience and achievements as PPs have described above.

You're right, I guess most teenagers need a push to get them out of their rooms and mine is no exception. We've had a few chats, she is not drawn to D of E but is talking about pushing herself to take up a new hobby.

No I didn't think DoE would unless ful of relevant activities. As there were a couple of uni recruiters on the thread I was wondering what they based offers on if grades were all topband equal.

DS bog standard comp didn’t offer D of E but he did get gold D of E with cadets. Both myself and DH have been responsible for admissions, its all about projected grades and an interest in the subject. Voluntary work experience impressed us but actual paid work was even better.

Tibtom some subjects interview all candidates, DH discipline does. I know one of my colleagues never read a personal statement, he just looked at projected grades.

Not sure if it's worth my posting again, but when interviewing for one of the courses mentioned above (for which top grades are required) my colleagues and I look favourably on success at DofE.