D of E - how relevant to university applications?

[TwoLeftElbows]

Posting on this board because it's an educational question for secondary age.

Question in the title really - how important or otherwise is D of E for university applications these days? DD is at a very middle class, high achieving comp and quite a few of her friends are doing bronze D of E, mostly "for their uni applications". One even told her it's essential. DD is very academic, articulate and passionate about her subjects and I thought universities are less interested in extra-curricular box ticking these days, but is there still value in D of E? I think she will cover all the elements in her existing activities really, apart from planning the walk, so I'm not sure she would gain loads in personal development from it.

She does do a voluntary activity and a club so she has some stuff to talk about, but not masses compared with friends who do sports, music exams etc. I am not sure what to advise her.

Not relevant at all, and there probably there isn't going to be room for it on a strong personal statement demonstrating commitment to your chosen subject. But it is a fun and interesting thing to do, and my dc enjoyed it for its own sake rather than as personal statement material. It's true that you could tailor the volunteering to your own interests/future career plans if you were very motivated and organised, but you could do that anyway without doing all the camping and orienteering if you really loathed that sort of thing.

DofE was really useful for DD1, but not for uni applications (she didn't go).
However of itself it got her do do things otherwise out of her comfort zone or things we wouldn't have done otherwise. She did refer to it in job applications to show examples of required skills.

Ds did gold, there didn't seem much point in doing anything less, but even then I'm not sure how helpful it was. He could always write a storming personal statement and is a huge schmoozer so he made it sound relevant and fabulous. Just listing it as achieved is no good at all. Also you could make pretty much anything sound relevant and fabulous if you put your mind to it. Any volunteering, any private research, most jobs, most extra curricular courses, even run ins with the law, previous failures, yada yada they can all be turned to advantage. It's not the thing itself that is important, it's what they learned from the thing.

Dd did Bronze as everyone else in school were. She was fine doing it but would happily have skipped it. It would have had no bearing in her university application and offer. It was never mentioned in any of her university interviews.

She didn't particularly enjoy the expedition part. She did it but it wasn't something she wanted to repeat.
The volunteer bit was somewhat irrelevant as she always did volunteer stuff anyway.
The skills part she did the same classes she was already doing iirr.
The activity part was easily fudged it seems, based on many if DD's friends. Dd did some running - her evidence was her activity tracker and was signed off my someone we knew involved in a running club, but not one Dd was part of.

I think it warranted a brief mention in her UCAS personal statement - basically a sentence that mentioned it at most.

But she didn't need things to fill it up. She already had way more work experience/volunteer work in the specific field and had plenty to talk about re activities, etc.

I don't think Bronze is needed for a university application - many schools do it these days, not just the odd one now, so it isn't unusual.

Gold would stand out more I'm sure though.

Depends on the course. I'm a programme lead for an UG course and spend a lot of time looking at applications to decide who to interview and there is literally nothing in the scoring sheet where a Dof E could add any extra marks to the application.

However the higher scorers then get invited to interview and it's possible that having done a DofE may give them some subject material to draw upon for interview questions if asked about stuff like team work, communication, etc.

Saying that I haven't met anyone yet who has talked about DofE....lots talk about NCS.

When we did the rounds, admissions officers mostly said in their talks that they couldn't give two hoots about extra-curricular unless it was directly relevant to the course they were applying for. Even activities which are admirable in their own right such as DofE, music or sport to a high level, were of zero interest to them.

All they wanted to know on a PS was why do you want to study this subject in more depth and what aspects of the course particularly interest you. That was basically it.

So as PP have said, do it if you want to, but not because you think you should.

@capercaillie

Not usually relevant for uni applications but can be very useful when applying for jobs. Can be relevant for uni if their volunteering or skill is linked to what they want to study eg I have some students doing conservation for volunteering for volunteering who want to study environmental science so the practical experience is very important. Same with medical students - have volunteered in hospitals and care homes.

But then why not just volunteer in an area related to your chosen field? That is well worth doing, I agree. But I don't see how going on a wet and muddy camping trip will make you a better doctor. As I say, if you like it then go for it. But it has made me sad over the years to see the "I hate this" faces and comments from so many of my DCs' friends about their DofE.

I’m a university admissions tutor but not RG (but mid ranking). Can’t say it makes any difference to be honest. More interested in passion and understanding of the subject. Can’t say I’ve ever not made an offer if they have / are predicted the required grades. If they don’t have the grades I look for relevant experience. I don’t teach a small limited numbers course though. Might make a difference for really competitive subjects I guess but again relevant experience would be better …

Not at all relevant for my two. Ds will be applying for music and his volunteering to play piano/keyboard for amateur and college productions and making audition tracks for friends during Covid is much more relevant.

Dd found the specific skills and experience when she volunteered at the library during summer reading challenge & other more relevant things stood her in good stead at a recent job interview.

DS never did it. In fact he never did anything. He even dropped out of school in S6 before applications were done and still got an unconditional for this September at a top 5 Scottish uni.

So many seem to do the D of E I don't think it's a standoutable thing anymore.

DofE and similar are only relevant if you're applying for sought after Unis/courses. The vast majority of Unis are only really interested in grades (and subjects where relevant). They help you stand out if a course is over-subscribed, but if there aren't enough applicants with the right grades for a course, then all those who apply will get an offer, and the Uni probably won't even look at other aspects of the application.

It can help if you do things towards it that are relevant to the degree they want. So, for example volunteering to coach sports if applying for a Sports degree, or going on a dig if applying for archaeology. It can help some students who struggle for things to say in their PS.

I doubt it carries all that much weight in and of itself. Having said that it can be a very rewarding experience and the expedition for many is one of those once in a lifetime hate or or love it memories.

I really don't think unis put much store on the PS of the school ref to be honest. For top uni it's all about the grades. For the rest it's just a matter of getting bums on seats.

I sat through at least two Cambridge admissions talks where they emphasised that it is grades, grades, interest in subject and grades that count. And they are not remotely interested in anything else extra-curricular and mostly use the PS to find a conversational ice breaker at interview.

I’m a university admissions tutor but not RG (but mid ranking). Can’t say it makes any difference to be honest. More interested in passion and understanding of the subject.

^^This is the message that DS has been hearing in university virtual tours. One specifically said we are not interested whether you have done DofE. Show us what you have done that is subject related.

DS1 is writing his first draft personal statement at the moment. He has be encouraged to refer to super curriculum (so, subject related but at a greater depth).

Extra curriculum shows you are balanced and apparently it's weird if you don't put anything, but they don't really care what it is.

He didn't do DofE. DS2 is doing it because he needs to get away from his computer. I did Gold, simply because I enjoyed it.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts, knowledge and experiences. A pretty resounding majority though not unanimous. It absolutely fries my brain that we are thinking about these things already - it seems only 5 minutes ago she was obsessed with Frozen!

Doing d of e is a good thing tho. The volunteering part dd was aBle to talk about specifically and what she learned. So doing d of e e meaNt she did the volunteering part.
And pushing teens to do physical activities is a good thing.
So do D of E and maybe some bits if it become relevant. Talk about those.
But not just "I did d of e"

As everyone has said, a Bronze DofE has nothing to do with a University Personal Statement.

Even with a Gold - which is a LOT more unusual (apparently only 3% of people that ever enrol in DofE, get their Gold Award) - listing it as 'an achievement' won't make much of a difference. As MrsPSmalls says, if you can demonstrate how something you did whilst working your way through the award has made you a more skilled / confident / talented / experienced person, then it can help, but that is the same if you ended up as orchestra Leader or Sports Team Captain or coach.

However, if your dd is already covering all the sections through doing a sport, volunteering etc, then it makes a lot of sense to sign up for DofE and achieve the awards without too much extra activity. She might well enjoy, and / or benefit from learning the camping / navigating / planning / first aid / team work skills as a bonus.

Yep, as Kite22 and others have said.
Would only advise doing it if you already are doing various sections, and like camping/hiking.

DS did bronze in yr 10 along with loads of others in his year as we were all led to believe it was essential for uni applications. What a load of twaddle-he hated it-his teachers made it miserable for most of the kids.It wasnt mentioned on his UCAS application-irrelevant for economics. He did actually pass it though unlike myself and my friends who were caught in a pub warming up on a very wet Snowdonia!

It’s a very middle class thing to have the opportunity to do, it wasn’t even an option at the “poor” school I went to, there’s no way the school would get off with asking for unnecessary expenses from parents. My peers and I still got into university.

I went to a very high achieving independent school and no it isn't essential, perhaps even seen as boring and irrelevant to applications now, do real and different volunteering. I did 4 years of disability and poverty volunteering for young people gained as levels, took a year out to work then did a level 4 qualification in biomedical science, I am now completing masters training for a water services/ environmental company after doing nearly 5 years NHS and bioinformatics BSc, I found what I truly wanted and will now be able to buy a house in my area before 25 and in a high paying job, I've lived in different cities also

Extra-currucular activities (though not specifically DoE) are more relevant if applying to US universities - they want to know how candidates will contribute to the wider life of the university.

My DS is very academic but also passionate about a particular sport and likely to be heavily involved in coaching and managing university teams. So he has much more to contribute than just his academic side. However, UK universities don't recruit on that basis.

@YerAWizardHarry there has been a push to get it into more schools - see here: www.dofe.org/thelatest/dofe-welcomes-government-funding-boost/

As others have said, it's not the DoE itself that's important, but if it inspires teenagers to do things they wouldn't normally be doing then that is the real benefit.

Unis just want well rounded individuals with extras related to their field of study if necessary

I don’t know where you’ve got this information- when I interview our applicants each year, we talk about the subject they’re applying to study, and their experience in it. I’m looking for how they think.