White disadvantaged pupils failed for decades - a national scandal

[noblegiraffe]

A group of MPs have produced a report detailing how white pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds have been neglected for decades leading to poorer educational outcomes than almost any other ethnic group.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

Given that the Tories have been in power for a decade, have they accepted their part in this? Well they seem to have gone with deciding that the phrase ‘White privilege’ is the real issue here.

Yes, white working class pupils have been neglected, but the implication is that is because other groups have been prioritised.

This is a government who:

1. have systematically underfunded education since they got in
2. have cut Pupil premium funding
3. are the sort to express horror at state school kids getting prioritised for Oxbridge places
4. have done fuck all for any other underachieving groups

And they’re only now concerned about white working class kids because

1. they think it might play well to the red wall
2. they can use it to score points in a tedious fucking culture war

Will we see any more money for schools (particularly early years) as a result? I doubt it.

This hasn't just happened over the last 10 years, though. They've been saying for over 30 years that white working class boys have been left behind. I do believe there was an initiative at one stage to try and redress it. Don't know what happened to that.

They are starting a culture war.

There are reasons why other ethnicities do better and it isn't down to teachers.

Lots of working class children of ethnicities are only considered as coming from working class families in the UK. In the countries of their families heritage they would be categorised as people with more privilege.

It is forgotten and glossed over that people need to have money and knowledge to emigrate to another country. Even to end up as a refugee in a Western country you need that.

I taught a lot of immigrants that were not at all wealthy or even that educated but they took advantage (in a good way) of opportunities and brought their children to this country. They worked hard themselves and drummed into their children that these were educational opportunities that they wouldn't get in the native country. Their children were expected to achieve.

I'm in no doubt that a lot of white working class parents feel the same but maybe the child's expectations are different. I don't know. I thought that's what the proposed initiatives were meant to be exploring.

Where is this 'industry' set up to help BAME children in poverty, of which they speak?

What I see is cuts, cuts, cuts, which have worsened poverty - and that's made everything harder. Impacting on all the children in poverty.

They have some chops writing this when this report exists.

The YMCA report I've linked to was referenced in the C4 News story yesterday on child criminal exploitation and violent death in young people ('knife crime), discussing the lack of youth services and how that has a. Led to a rise in young people's deaths and b. Prevents a public health approach to knife crime.

So ... where is this 'industry' helping young BAME children in poverty (& excluding white children in poverty!) of which they speak?

I'm so sad about this.

Schools are now tasked with trying to deal with the fall-out from a massively depleted public sector and growing inequality. Both of which situations are a direct consequence of government choices.

It's hard. And it's not fair on schools.

And instead of a serious report, and plans, and actions, and money ... we get offered a culture war. Pitting inequality against inequality.

It's actually so, so depressing.

This isn't an education issue more of a society issue. I think to fix it would take huge investment in famines, early years education, housing, community facilities, remember Sure Start Centres? But also youth clubs, youth mentors, mental health services for young people etc..

Basically we need to look at our priorities as a society and have a stern word with ourselves. Because this Government seem to be very popular and yet do nothing for the most disadvantaged in our society, so what does that say?

I think this has much more to do with the good parenting and high expectations of ethnic minorities in this country. Leave the teachers alone they are doing an amazing job with vastly reduced funds. Look to helping parents of white working class children so that they learn how to support their children and encourage a good work ethic.

Agree with a pp that social status of migrants is often misunderstood. It is rare for a migrant to any country to come from the bottom of the social strata of their country of origin. And higher social status plus higher parental academic achievement translates to better educational outcomes for children especially in a class bound society like the UK.

The other thing, of course, is that here in the U.K. , pretty much no-one used the term 'white privilege'.

It's not a thing.

In the US - yes. They have a problem, which can be traced to their suppression of class politics (& probably related to the make-up of the Democratic Party).

But here in the U.K. it has been largely present in terms of its being interrogated and found lacking as a vehicle for political change.

So this report is actually trying to make it happen.

So, as they say in Mean Girls:

It's not a thing. Stop trying to make it happen.

Is there problen

It is forgotten and glossed over that people need to have money and knowledge to emigrate to another country.

And drive. 1st and 2nd generation immigrants are a self-selecting group.

There were a lot of initiatives moon, as you say this has been known about for years. Many of them got funding cut under the conservative government. Previously we'd pumped quite a lot of funding into it. Perhaps Halfon and his ilk need to spend less time postulating about whether the term white privilige is causing the issue and more time wondering how their funding cuts and the increased divide between rich and poor over the last 10 years have helped the problem.

This isn't a problem with a quick fix. It's not going to be fixed over the course of a parliament, it will take decades. Especially since any money this government throws at things tends not to be new money and frequently turns out to be a budget cut, despite the headlines. Not that'll be going to where it's most needed.

Like the levelling up funding that's being made available to areas, I suspect much less of it will be finding it's way into deprived areas, such as coastal towns that actually need it.

Actually, I just can't get over how the culture war invents shit - that doesn't exist - in the face of a pernicious reality, which does exist, and is then rendered invisible.

I'll repeat again:

There isn't a bloody industry helping poor BAME kids at the expense of poor white boys.

What there is is a reality of massive cuts to youth services

I'm probably going to get burned for this. I am a first gen white immigrant. I was in Y3 when I came here, spoke no English and slept on two double beds with my 4 siblings and mum. We were really really poor.
I remember my friend who was a Carribbean boy coming up to me and laughing because the school gave him, and all the other Carribbean boys, not the african origin boys because you know they get results, an iPad. I couldn't believe this. This boy wasn't poor.
I was really bitter about this, I couldn't have acting lessons like he did, nice trainers and clothes and on top of that he gets a free iPad.
I came home to my mum and complained about this. She just snuffed at me and said you better work and get an iPad if you so badly want one. I ended up getting a Saturday job and saving up for a bike, a laptop and worked my ass of through school.
Now I say this not because I don't think Carribbean boys deserve an iPad, give all the kids one I don't care, but whenever these incentives are put in place, it's almost impossible to get it right. There are some people who juuuuust miss out on free school meals and they struggle a lot.
The biggest difference I saw was the attitude my mum forced me to have. She had very very high expectations of us and would never let me blame the gov for anything like this. I think unfortunately the big fault is with peoples attitudes. A lot of my white poor peers were very bitter about this and they didn't have a mum like mine at home.
I don't think throwing money at this sort of attitude is a good idea. No iPad will ever be enough.

Is there a problem with educational outcomes for boys from disadvantaged backgrounds? Yes, definitely.

Are people like Halfon trying to perpetuate this "culture war" they keep going on about? Yes, definitely.

The reasons behind this are multi faceted. Lack of funding (in school and beyond), lack of expectation (at home and in communities), lack of access to practical knowledge and support (how do you apply to university, how do I fund it).

My area is very white, and educational outcomes are low. Very few go to university because nobody expects them to, because they don't know how to go about it, and there's no way they're going to take on tens of thousands in debt to cover something they don't see as benefiting them.

This is not a black v white issue. It's more to do with keeping poor people in their place and not expecting anything more than what they've always known.

Posted too soon.

Cuts to youth services: www.ymca.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/YMCA-Out-of-Service-report.pdf

Cuts to mental health services

Decimation of Sure Start

Cessation of investment in education.

A rise in child criminal exploitation and violent death in young, black, male children and no capacity for a public health approach to deal with that

Massive poverty in big cities and the re-organisation of funding away from those cities to wealthier areas.

The culture war is a form of lying about what doesn't exist to render what does exist invisible.

It's obscene.

@orf1abc I agree completely, especially with your last bit. I ended up working in schools finance after leaving school. What I noticed was, whatever was on fashion and would get them votes, they would fund.
I imagine the Tories are now quaking in their boots after losing tons of middle class votes and they want to push an agenda out to please them a little.

What was the initiative giving the Caribbean boy an I-Pad or acting lessons, meadow?

The only initiatives I've come across provide access on grounds of income, not identity.

And because schools are aware that this is imperfect (it's usually related to FSM and often excludes many of the working poor), they try very hard to share access to these initiatives across the school.

It's not so much what goes on in schools. The home environment has a much greater impact. Unfortunately, we have an attitude problem in the UK towards education, perhaps more in the white "underclass" population. It's not seen to be "cool" to work hard at school, perpetuated by parental attitude. We seem to have a culture where we celebrate the "I can't do Maths" attitude and that rubs off on children. My DS went to a school that had a high ethnic composition (mostly Asian). He tells me nearly all of them would be highly motivated, always do their homework, always concentrating in lessons, engage with after school activities, clubs, societies, school choir, etc. He said the white kids mostly had a completely different attitude of doing the bare minimum, messing around in class, leaving dead on the bell to go to McD's rather than joining after school activities etc. All that is more down to parents rather than teachers.

Professor Sir Bryan Thwaites offered £1m scholarships to two private schools because he wanted to help disadvantaged white boys like himself. He had benefited from a scholarship in his youth and wanted to pay it forward. Both schools refused because they said it was racist. Nobody could explain why it was ok to have scholarships solely for black boys but not for white boys.

@thecatfromjapan I have no idea. I was 11 and this was 2004. The incentive was the iPads. The boy was from a (to my 11 year old self) wealthy family as he did lots of acting classes and ended up at the BRIT school.
Most of the incentives I've come across were on grounds of identity not really income. But than again I grew up in the early 00s hackney. I think it is much different now but from the article it looks like they're trying to go back, this time give iPads to the white boys.
The traveller boys in my school would've been very happy. There was uproar from them when they didn't get the iPads.

@Orf1abc lack of access to practical knowledge and support (how do you apply to university, how do I fund it).

I'd disagree with this. Now nearly everyone has access to the internet, such information is only a click away. Most Uni's have invested millions into their websites giving such information in easily accessible forms, as have colleges etc., and likewise large firms are also heavily investing in apprentice programs, websites for potential applicants, etc. Unis, colleges and employers also usually have major outreach programs, going into schools for "careers fairs", and hosting open days, sports/science festivals, etc etc. The trouble they have is getting teenagers to engage with it when many teenagers are obsessed with social media and Youtube videos! You can lead a horse to water.....

Of course it wasn't actually the iPad. It was a tablet type of device.

I've had my children in schools across London and taught across London.

I've honestly never come across identity-based programmes within a school. The schools just wouldn't do it because it would be hopelessly divisive!

They have more sense.

So I've come across schemes for music lessons (access subsidised for lower-income children), free laptops for all students, free after-school activities (for all pupils), scholarships to private school (academic and income-based).

I'm actually trying hard to think of any initiatives within the school that we're identity-based.

Schools avoid that - for obvious reasons.

[quote Badbadbunny]**@Orf1abc* lack of access to practical knowledge and support (how do you apply to university, how do I fund it).*

I'd disagree with this. Now nearly everyone has access to the internet, such information is only a click away. Most Uni's have invested millions into their websites giving such information in easily accessible forms, as have colleges etc., and likewise large firms are also heavily investing in apprentice programs, websites for potential applicants, etc. Unis, colleges and employers also usually have major outreach programs, going into schools for "careers fairs", and hosting open days, sports/science festivals, etc etc. The trouble they have is getting teenagers to engage with it when many teenagers are obsessed with social media and Youtube videos! You can lead a horse to water.....[/quote]
You are very naive. Although I'd class us as middle class these days I guess (dh is a teacher, we both went to uni) ds went to school with a large majority white working class boys (and girls) although he briefly went to private school so I have a comparison. dd went to a different, much more affluent school. Ds is now at college studying a boy heavy subject.

I'd say the majority of the kids don't have access to laptops etc. They tend to access the internet on mobile phones, some have tablets. Outreach programmes are pretty non existent. At a careers fayre at ds's school there were a couple of localish universities of no particular renown. No Russell group represented at all. It was mostly local colleges offering btec or retake type courses. I don;'t know where these unis, colleges and employers are doing their outreach but it certainly wasn't my son's school. I suspect they were at the Catholic grammar school instead. So far at college ds has had little to no advice about university applications. The college facebook group for his department seem to be heavily promoting their own HND courses instead plus one other college that I know (as my dh teaches this subject) is really not very good. I assume this college must have engaged with the students in some way to get so many applicants accepted. The contrast to the level of support and information that kids at other, more affluent schools get, is striking. Girls don't seem to be quite as affected, I don't know why. I have noticed though that dd has always been treated differently to ds as she is more traditionally academic/compliant perhaps.

In the last week alone I have seen 3 different entry level jobs in the industry that ds wants to go into advertised as ONLY being open to candidates from a particular demographic.

There is also an ingrained family attitude of not encouraging kids to go to university or certainly not away from home. People even resent the fact that their kids have to stay on at school or college. A lucky few get apprentiships but there are not many going to be honest. I get so many phone calls at work from people enquiring if we have any.

White, working class boys have been known to be an underachieving group for a long time. In my area there is also a problem with girls of pakistani/bangladeshi origin not being allowed to go to university but that does slowly seem to be changing and boys of the same origin becoming disillusioned with society too. But overall the statistics speak for themselves.

Anyway, here's a Sam Freedman Twitter thread on the report.

He's always good for a reasonable perspective and links to further reading;

twitter.com/samfr/status/1407260259828350980?s=12

His conclusion: it's a complex challenge. The idea that schools are failing to deal with the complex challenge out of a misplaced sense of 'wokeness' is ludicrous.

A conclusion with which I wholeheartedly agree.

What badbadbunny says is true, in my experience.

If you are within a family where education isn’t valued, expectations are low and experience of employment fairly non existent, you’ll question why you need to bother working at school.

Yes, the majority have access to the internet, but perhaps these families don’t understand how to interpret the information once they have it.

None of it was to do with opportunity. They had opportunity, but chose a different path, because that was the experience they had.

Of course, if there was funding for youth clubs, Surestart, mentoring, mental health programmes, it might spark something in some of these young people. But they are a product of their environment and most will perpetuate that.