White disadvantaged pupils failed for decades - a national scandal

[noblegiraffe]

A group of MPs have produced a report detailing how white pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds have been neglected for decades leading to poorer educational outcomes than almost any other ethnic group.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

Given that the Tories have been in power for a decade, have they accepted their part in this? Well they seem to have gone with deciding that the phrase ‘White privilege’ is the real issue here.

Yes, white working class pupils have been neglected, but the implication is that is because other groups have been prioritised.

This is a government who:

1. have systematically underfunded education since they got in
2. have cut Pupil premium funding
3. are the sort to express horror at state school kids getting prioritised for Oxbridge places
4. have done fuck all for any other underachieving groups

And they’re only now concerned about white working class kids because

1. they think it might play well to the red wall
2. they can use it to score points in a tedious fucking culture war

Will we see any more money for schools (particularly early years) as a result? I doubt it.

White privilege does exist.

We have all read of the Bullingdon boys trashing restaurants and college rooms. But Daddy writes a cheque for the damage and it's overlooked.

It sounds like they're trying to whip up another culture war to hide behind decades of educational and societal failings that flow from terrible political decisions.

White previlege doesn't exist? I work in international development and so many posts are allocated to only expats. Read white people. My bosses are 99% white even though in about 90% of the cases they have less experience and less education that me. Even when I submit expenses, am scrutinized differently from white colleagues because there is an underlying assumption that I will cheat though the reality is that I often under claim. If I walk into meetings am automatically assumed to be less than white colleagues. Although I work hard and earn decently, almost always more than my white partner, it's often assumed that I subsist on him since he is white (though he is often out of employment). He is male and White and double previlege if you will. White previlege is not just economic. It's all these economic, social, psychological etc licenses or boosters one gets for simply having less melanin than people like me. In certain contexts even failing white working class boys will get these licenses. Of course against the likes of Boris the socioeconomic privilege comes more into force

@Piggywaspushed

All the OP pointed out are the statistical FACTS that white working class boys are by a wide margin, the least likely to achieve the grades and then go on to higher education

But that isn't actually true. It's Black Caribbean boys and travellers.

But it is true.

“in every year from 2007 to 2020, White pupils had the lowest entry rate into higher education – the percentage of state school pupils aged 18 accepted into college or university”
www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/higher-education/entry-rates-into-higher-education/latest

Yes, I know. It was conflated with school achievements. In which case it is untrue.

The thing is there is no educational group of 'white working class boys' or class at all for measuring achievement. FSM is being used as a careless proxy for social class.

@Piggywaspushed

Yes agree. FSM, to me can be proxy for children in poverty. Which is actually next class down from working class, imho. State school education is a better proxy for working class.

It's lies, damned lies and statistics. It's exactly what the Sewell report did. When it suits, lump all black groups together (which I think is what the HE report did but haven't checked your link yet); when it doesn't suit , break them down into separate entities.

No doubt they are lumping the traveller communities in with 'white disadvantaged' and have not disaggregated data for white communities by WBRI or White other.

I agree. Look at a map of where grammar school exist in U.K. too. They are conspicuously absent in Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and most rural parts of England. Where they are mostly are the SE and in and around London....the bastions of the middle class. Grammar schools may have been sold as a way for working class to pull themselves up, but today they are majority for the middle class who can not afford tuition paying schools but feel their children deserve a better education than that found in state comprehensives or academies

I live in a very poor town with a grammar school. The grammar school is just over 50% Black and Asian pupils, though the local area is about 14%. I don't really know why this is but it's the truth. In theory, the school should be a lifeline, educationally speaking, to the poor white kids in the town.

Checked link : it is exactly what they did. Disaggregate Black African and Black Caribbean and the figures will be astonishingly different,. Interesting category of 'other' as well.

@RedMarauder

They are starting a culture war.

There are reasons why other ethnicities do better and it isn't down to teachers.

Lots of working class children of ethnicities are only considered as coming from working class families in the UK. In the countries of their families heritage they would be categorised as people with more privilege.

It is forgotten and glossed over that people need to have money and knowledge to emigrate to another country. Even to end up as a refugee in a Western country you need that.

This is spot on.

Go to a tutoring centre and look at, meet, talk to the families who are paying good money to send their kids for tutoring in an attempt to elevate their children (and mitigate their in zone school) through education. Better outcomes certainly doesn't mean better resourcing or treatment by the state, or an absence of racism in play at school. What it means is that the parents know what they're up against and are desperately working hard to mitigate the inherent head winds their children are fighting from reception day 1.

Yes, contrary to popular opinion, there are many complicated hurdles to jump, in order to make it across the border, whether as an immigrant or a refugee. A family needs existing financial resource and/or a good amount of knowledge and savvy, which often comes from the privilege of being what we would consider a solid middle class family in the UK.

@Comefromaway why don't Chinese lads get stopped?

Using FSM as a criteria gives you 20% of children.

Which is a lot.

Sam Freedman (alias 'Yoda') suggests using the criteria used for nursery under-2 provision.

Which gives you a figure nearer 40%.

Those are such large numbers.

No wonder it looks as though terms like 'working-class' no longer fit.

We just have a massive, growing problem with inequality, our old terms of reference fall apart in the face of it.

And what a disgrace we are being invited to ignore it.

@Piggywaspushed

Yes, I know. It was conflated with school achievements. In which case it is untrue.

Ah, yes, white British (boys and girls) do score better than black Caribbean and Roma/Traveller in progress 8. But I can’t find that split further out by sex? Also, it is true that ethnic minority student is more likely to qualify for a contextual offer- as in gain entry to university with lower grades than a white student BUT NOT due to ethnicity but because ethnic minority person is more likely to be in poverty/economically disadvantaged.

That’s important to realise....there is no minority “advantage” I can see at play causing white working class boys to fall behind. It’s more complex.

[quote iminthegarden]@Comefromaway why don't Chinese lads get stopped? [/quote]
I don't know whether they do or not. Maybe they do. Maybe people have the stereotype in their head of the typical chinese overachieving student. I'm not an expert in every single ethnicity.

If I might share an anecdote from a Bangladeshi colleague. He said they have shared family finances and their earnings go into one pot. So my colleague puts his salary into the household pot and he receives pocket money and expenses paid. But he’s putting in way more than he gets back.

I said that seems unfair? He said but it essentially means the family pot is like a private bank that gives us money to buy a house with no mortgage, or start a business with no loans, and we pay zero interest. The “family bank” never turns you down so you’re not restricted in the way you would be if you were unable to get a loan or mortgage from a high street bank. Right now his salary is going in the pot and helping his cousin to start a business with no loans. Then in maybe 5 years time his cousin’s earnings from the business will go in the pot to help him to buy a house with no mortgage.

According to him this is a common arrangement for Bangladeshi families and he said we think it’s mad that white people keep their money to themselves and borrow from banks so they pay massive amounts of interest.

Of course it’s only an anecdote, but if it is as common as he says then it could be a cultural reason for white people being under-privileged.

Wearywithteens
I think you're right and there's merit in what other posters are saying.
Being working class doesn't make someone feckless, and I don't think anyone has actually said that, but there is a big difference between having parents who value education and those who don't.

Even if you look at the example about your bright Stoke lad, you've picked your example as a family who are likely to care about his education and be invested in his education. You're right about not having the same opportunities as affluent middle class children, but he's worlds away from another student who may have a huge amount of potential, but never realises the potential because their parents are poorly educated, don't value education, have insecure housing, has experienced a range of adverse childhood experiences as a result of his parents' circumstances.

We can't dismiss people discussing very valid wider social problems and exploring the impact on education as being part of the problem, because ignoring these issues isn't going to solve the problem.

The type of people who emigrate have initiative and drive.

That's the reason for the differences.

@Grellbunt

The type of people who emigrate have initiative and drive.

That's the reason for the differences.

Or were driven out by invaders as my grandparents were by the Japanese during WWII. We came to France as refugees.

@Tuberoses

If I might share an anecdote from a Bangladeshi colleague. He said they have shared family finances and their earnings go into one pot. So my colleague puts his salary into the household pot and he receives pocket money and expenses paid. But he’s putting in way more than he gets back.

I said that seems unfair? He said but it essentially means the family pot is like a private bank that gives us money to buy a house with no mortgage, or start a business with no loans, and we pay zero interest. The “family bank” never turns you down so you’re not restricted in the way you would be if you were unable to get a loan or mortgage from a high street bank. Right now his salary is going in the pot and helping his cousin to start a business with no loans. Then in maybe 5 years time his cousin’s earnings from the business will go in the pot to help him to buy a house with no mortgage.

According to him this is a common arrangement for Bangladeshi families and he said we think it’s mad that white people keep their money to themselves and borrow from banks so they pay massive amounts of interest.

Of course it’s only an anecdote, but if it is as common as he says then it could be a cultural reason for white people being under-privileged.

You might want to look up stats on Bangladeshi achievement sin education before you generalise too much!

@Grellbunt

The type of people who emigrate have initiative and drive.

That's the reason for the differences.

Some of the 'white working class' are recent immigrants.

Plus immigrants may benefit from NOT being automatically pigeonholed into the "wrong side of the tracks" based on their accent/habits/parents so many natives are in the snobbish UK...

I also think there is something to be said about how the political leaders are addressing the issue. People like Farage who have for years used terms like 'the liberal elite' and the 'London Bankers' is almost like they are trying to denigrate people who are educated and who have drive to better themselves.

The downside of trying to encourage the working class to be proud of being working class is that there is an implicit desire to encourage them not to better themselves, value education, want to have a higher profession.

I think that this attitude (to try and put down educated people) has had a much more negative impact on working classes' attitude towards education than the 'white privilege' discussions.

I remember over 15 years ago discussing this 'white boys underperforming' issue within schools. The term 'White privilege' hasn't existed for that long altogether.

I’m not sure it’s wise or accurate to think of ethnic minorities as mostly being immigrants. The majority of us are actually born and raised for two, three or more generations in Europe. I would say maybe less than a quarter or around 20% would be immigrants themselves. There is centuries long history of ethnic minorities living in Europe. We didn’t all come on a boat or plane in last decade.

But it's also about gap . We have one of the largest equality gaps of any rich nation (beaten only by the USA and Portugal equals us). The people at the 'bottom' aren't dense . They see that gap and see no means to bridge it.