White disadvantaged pupils failed for decades - a national scandal

[noblegiraffe]

A group of MPs have produced a report detailing how white pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds have been neglected for decades leading to poorer educational outcomes than almost any other ethnic group.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

Given that the Tories have been in power for a decade, have they accepted their part in this? Well they seem to have gone with deciding that the phrase ‘White privilege’ is the real issue here.

Yes, white working class pupils have been neglected, but the implication is that is because other groups have been prioritised.

This is a government who:

1. have systematically underfunded education since they got in
2. have cut Pupil premium funding
3. are the sort to express horror at state school kids getting prioritised for Oxbridge places
4. have done fuck all for any other underachieving groups

And they’re only now concerned about white working class kids because

1. they think it might play well to the red wall
2. they can use it to score points in a tedious fucking culture war

Will we see any more money for schools (particularly early years) as a result? I doubt it.

It's not racist, it's realistic.

The few black parents I know sacrifice everything for their children. Affluent black parents send them to private school, less affluent ones encourage their kids in other ways.

It's more complicated for pakistani/bangladeshi/Indian. There you have a more of a contrast in attitudes.

ON the whole white, working class families seem to have this "that's not for me attitude. I'm not paying for that, you need to get a job, you can't go to university in x city yuo have to go to the local one (my parents told me I wasn't allowed to go to university in London), one of my husband's relatives attitude was I sent them to school, what more do you want.

Of course it's not everybody, but it's a majority round here I can tell you.

There isn't a bloody industry helping poor BAME kids at the expense of poor white boys.

No one is saying that. All the OP pointed out are the statistical FACTS that white working class boys are by a wide margin, the least likely to achieve the grades and then go on to higher education. This IS happening. No one is as you say “invents shit-that doesn’t exist”

The problem does exist. And I don’t think anyone is saying it’s a choice between white working class OR minority working class succeeding. There is nothing to say that there cannot be equality of opportunity..the fact is whatever little help is out there or not out there, for some reason white working class boys are doing worse than everyone else of same class, in same school, with same household incomes. Investigation is needed to find out why...regardless of what level of funding there is for schools, whatever is on offer should be on offer equally across the board to both sexes and all ethnicities. Right now the outcomes are too different to support that there is equality of opportunity.

@Peregrina

Please don't come extolling the grammar schools as havens of progress for working class children. They weren't, it was only a lucky few who managed to get to one. A lot of parents of the older generation were fobbed off with a second best education at the age of 11 but as the woman in quoted in the BBC article said - there were secure factory jobs available, so education didn't matter as much.

I agree. Look at a map of where grammar school exist in U.K. too. They are conspicuously absent in Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and most rural parts of England. Where they are mostly are the SE and in and around London....the bastions of the middle class. Grammar schools may have been sold as a way for working class to pull themselves up, but today they are majority for the middle class who can not afford tuition paying schools but feel their children deserve a better education than that found in state comprehensives or academies.

I'm bloody furious about this reporting and the lead on "white privilege" not being a thing.
I'm furious for several reasons:

1. I suspect (but have no proof) this illustrates geographical variation not race. Historically many areas in the North of England and rural communities are underfunded compared to cities. They are also more likely to be areas of white working class. I'd like to see that controlled for before we just leap to "discrimination against white people"
2. does the systematic non achievement of white working class boys translate into less achievement later in life? Because from where I'm standing it looks like there are sectors of society who do worse in life opportunities and outcomes despite doing better at school. It feels very cynical, like they've deliberately looked for evidence of white people being disadvantaged and I don't like it.
3. They are proposing "hubs" in disadvantaged areas to provide support from a young age. WHAT LIKE ALL THE SURE START CENTRES YOU DECIMATED? It's a total barefaced cheek to not acknowledge their policies undid a load of good infrastructure in place to tackle precisely this issue. And it gives me the total rage.

@Comefromaway
It's not racist, it's realistic.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. But any sweeping generalisation of any ethnicity no matter what class they are is going to be racist. I find it funny you are basing your opinion on personal anecdotes of black families you know versus white families you know. What you are doing, extrapolating from your limited experience is called prejudice. You are pre-judging all other black/white working class families based on the few you know. And in so doing coming to racist conclusions.

meadowbreeze I'm not a fan of scholarships. I prefer centralised funding.

But ... you are aware there are hundreds and hundreds of post-18 scholarships? The majority of which are related to the Church and the armed services?

Years ago, pre-internet, my friend was looking for funding for a PhD. Back then, there was a massive book, listing scholarships and their criteria. These days, you use google and search terms. The website Tuberose linked to has the purpose of bringing the results of that search to one location.

But there are hundreds of scholarship. Some set up by women during the fight for women's education, many set up by tradesman's guilds, a lot of Church scholarships, trade Union scholarships, some really odd ones, established by idiosyncratists.

Scholarships are a poor, poor second to proper funding, which increases opportunity for all.

And that's the point.

We're being asked to look away from the underfunding - which is the real driver of inequality.

(And I will also add that this report also has the intention of making it harder to talk about the intersection of racial inequality and economic inequality. Which is complex. As many posters have pointed out.

Why would anyone want to make that already complex discussion harder?)

Not just personal anecdotes.

I've actually seen the data on this over many years. My husband has taught in schools in several different areas and sectors, I've seen the exam results and university or not destinations for 30 odd years of these kids.

No surprise as just follow the data

Haven't read whole thread yet : multi taking. But this ONCE AGAIN manipulates data to avoid looking at underachievement in Bangladeshi and black Caribbean children because white boys suit the narrative better.

An interesting article for those believing working class parents don't aspire:

theconversation.com/parents-and-children-living-in-poverty-have-the-same-aspirations-as-those-who-are-better-off-103897

It's also a way to engage in whataboutery about the sort of fantastic work Stormzy has been doing to raise aspiration in bright young black students who are still the least likely group to gain access to Oxbridge by a country mile.

does the systematic non achievement of white working class boys translate into less achievement later in life?

No. I have data on this somewhere.

All the OP pointed out are the statistical FACTS that white working class boys are by a wide margin, the least likely to achieve the grades and then go on to higher education

But that isn't actually true. It's Black Caribbean boys and travellers.

Thought it was a bad joke when I heard some Tory minister on Radio 4 news this morning supporting the 'evidence' in this report.

Paraphrased he tried to say that 'white priviledge' was particularly offensive to the 'white single mother' who was underpriviledged.

Since when have Tories ever understood anything about being a single parent on a low income?

Being one myself I found the press statement insulting.

A single mother I mean NOT a Tory.

@thecatfromjapan i agree with everything you have said. I think the problem is so complex people like to look at a very specific area of the problem and say ha! See, here is the problem. This will suit our current agenda and will make us look great! We will admit a small mistake but only because we will immediately put money in to this very very specific area that will not benefit anyone else! But votes votes!

It makes me want to live off grid.

@QuentinBunbury

Yes agree the contention that “white privilege” doesn’t exist is ridiculous. If anything what we may be seeing is that the lower your class, the weaker white privilege gets. And it could well be that various actions to counter white privilege have had greater impact on working class than on middle/upper class. Intersectionality is what is making this problem complex.

does the systematic non achievement of white working class boys translate into less achievement later in life?

I’d say yes as an average, because University graduates on average have higher lifetime earnings than non graduates. Yes some graduates, ie media studies, go on to earn less than certain trades careers, ie plumbers, gas engineers, etc. But these are the exceptions to the rule. In general, a university degree results in higher lifetime earnings and social mobility to middle class.

Now they may not do as badly as expected due to white privilege. And I think the data shows that white working class men are more likely to be in FT work, less likely to be sacked etc than minority working class men. So white privilege is still operating but that doesn’t mean some potential for academic success isn’t being squashed along the way.

@Piggywaspushed

It's also a way to engage in whataboutery about the sort of fantastic work Stormzy has been doing to raise aspiration in bright young black students who are still the least likely group to gain access to Oxbridge by a country mile.

This is very well put, Piggy. And accurate.

At least part of the point of this is to deflect attention away from that work, and the questions/issues it raised about racial inequality.

I'd suggest it also aims to make it easier for people to dismiss people like Marcus Rashford with cries of 'wine', too.

Despite the fact that Marcus Rashford highlighted inequality and poverty under this government.

@Piggywaspushed

All the OP pointed out are the statistical FACTS that white working class boys are by a wide margin, the least likely to achieve the grades and then go on to higher education

But that isn't actually true. It's Black Caribbean boys and travellers.

Isn't the figure based on children entitled to free school meals for black Carribean boys 32% (still very low) as opposed to 16% for white boys? (university entry)

This is a relic of the industrial age. People came to towns to work in factories and lived for generations supported (often precariously and poorly) by a few industries.

Then it all went, and there was no exit plan for these communities. Some families will have moved on, chasing work and opportunities elsewhere, but the ones that are left behind are the antithesis of immigrant communities, probably more comparable to the communities that immigrants left behind.

Multi-generational unemployment, and with lack of work on this scale comes poverty, mental illness, addiction.

It's not necessarily a "white" thing, but it is an indigenous, working class population thing in the UK.

The large scale industries that can support a community aren't ever coming back though, and in an age of automation it will only get worse so we've got to look for something different if we really want a solution and a way to re-energise and regenerate areas where families have been left to rot.

But you wouldn't be correct. Whit men's pay outstrips the pay of others in every social group by the age of 30 , regardless of educational background.

The lowest paid graduates 5 and 10 years after graduating come from EMs.

I think the most harmful thing is to make white working class boys feel they have underachieved because others are achieving. It is harmful I don't know where to begin. To build in that level of resentment of other communities is a bonkers thing to do. And not based on any evidence.

Yes agree the contention that “white privilege” doesn’t exist is ridiculous.

A PP said that this was an American concept which the committee had tried to import. I imagine that it is true there, were the lower classes are predominantly black or Latino - although there are poor whites too. But it's not really the case in the UK.

But here it's doesn't really apply to those areas where the once well paid manual jobs in heavy industry have disappeared. And the Tories know that there are now votes there for them.

Yes come for university entry but the comment was on overall educational achievement where it isn't correct.

The thing is there is no educational group of 'white working class boys' or class at all for measuring achievement. FSM is being used as a careless proxy for social class.

Am black African for reference. For those saying white working class parents have attitude problems towards education, why is that? Is it inherent or is it because for generations the system has failed them? They haven't progressed out of their "classes" so perhaps they become proud of who they are as a coping mechanisms /for hedging against disappointment? We have similar declarations in my country where donors tell us we simply have an attitude problem, if only our parents or culture did this and not that. No parent regardless of class or race wants their children to be worse off than them or to achieve no more than what they achieved.
As for "everyone has internet to look up universities", it's not that simple. You need to understand where to look, how to navigate the pages, how to put together an application, where to go for scholarships or whether you can take on debt (which I imagine most of the poor can't), what course you want for what career, what career options are out there etc. If you have multiple and multi-generational exclusions, this is not easy whether you are from Malawi or from the UK. Those multiple and multi-generational exclusions are as a result decades and decades of policies that structure opportunities for specific races and classes in particular ways and shape every choice you make and what doors open and which ones have to be blown open. And it can be very very exhausting.
And this report should not pretend black boys and girls in the UK are suddenly on the up and up. That's another discussion for another time...

White privilege does exist. It exists in the fact that a group of black or asian lads walking along, minding their own business are far more likely to be challenged, stopped and searched by the police, thought of as trouble etc etc. The statistics are available to prove this. In my area groups of white lads too are seen as "trouble" even if they have done nothing wrong but nowhere near as much prejudice.

If you have a certain ethnic sounding surname and send your CV in for a job you are far less likely to get an interview in many places. It's endemic.

White "privilege" does not necessarily mean you are "privileged"

I think I was making much the same point as ditalini.

Talking about FSM - it's really one of the few objective measures we have, which is why it gets used so often.