Considering move from state to private - what to ask?

[itsjustlowhangingfruit]

DD is 13 and not happy at her state school. We are considering a move to private. we have an initial zoom call with the principal and head of year, and then a visit the next day to the school with DD.

What should we be aware of? What should we be asking? What should we be looking for? Any ideas and tips appreciated!

DH and I went to state school so no real experience of private. DH thinks we will not be eligible for a bursary as our combined income is between £65-70,000 (one of the other schools we looked at said those with that income wouldn't get bursaries).

My DPs have offered to help with the costs but its still a lot. We would find a way to pay it regardless if it means DD was happy.

DD is a smart girl, getting at least 80% in all her school tests, but she's not skilled in a particular subject. She used to be in her school's brass band but got bored of it. She's not sporty or outdoorsy either. She does like Art best but I wouldn't say gifted.

The private school we are looking at talks a lot on its website about music, drama, sports and DD doesn't really like any of these things so I'm not sure if the school would be looking for that kind of talent from her or if they'd be happy to take her anyway, especially as her grades and behaviour are all good.

Anyway, any advice welcomed.

Hello, we have a daughter in a state school. We looked at private schools a few years ago and our experience wasn't honestly all that good.

In particular, we didn't feel these schools were good with kids who weren't normal/conventional, or were having problems of any sort.

But it could be worth try anyway. Your experience may differ from ours depending on what schools you are looking at.

When visiting a school you could tell them your daughter is highly academic and well-behaved, but not sporty or musical. They may be willing to make allowances but don't count on this.

Some schools offer bursaries to those with family incomes below £120,000 so it's worth asking if you would qualify for "financial assistance".

Bursaries are sought after and often go to the most talented and the poorest. I’m not sure if she’s academic or not from what you say. Depends on the competition and standards of other dc in the school. Is it a grammar and/or high achieving school?

Your description doesn’t paint a picture of a girl who wants to do much or stick at it. Most parents looking at private value art, music, drama and sport because they are often marginalised in state schools. So you would look at classrooms, behaviour of dc and their enthusiasm and hope it rubs off in dc. I assume you know the academic standards. Ask about clubs and try and get her to be enthusiastic about something. Otherwise what are you paying for? Happiness is difficult to judge and quantify. I would want my DC to embrace what the school is offering and not say they are not interested in anything.

Your income sounds too high for a bursary from schools I know.

Also never say a dc is highly academic to a new school. If they test her and she’s not you will look silly. Don’t say anything about academics but look interested when looking round.

Thanks for the tips

DD has been getting grades of 85% for science tests, 97% for her maths test as some examples.

Her current school is one of the lowest performing in the country and our local authority is one of the most deprived(we're in Scotland) but her friends from primary were going there and we wanted to consider private at the time but she insisted on going with her friends.

Then her friends ditched her and DD is also complaining that she is unable to learn due to disruptive classes. DD enjoys school with art, maths and chemistry particular subjects but we feel she's at risk of falling behind.

DD is still unsure about private as she's worried about not fitting in and all the other pupils being 'too posh'. She does know one pupil there from primary school (their parents both teach there)

Hi OP, my advice would be not to treat this as a discussion about private vs state schools. Instead, I suggest you think about what your DD enjoys about school and what she is looking for a new school to provide that her current school does not. And then ask those specific questions to the potential new school. Eg, what will the new school put in place to support her making friends? What is their approach to encouraging children to get involved in co-curricular activities, eg music, sport? It does sound as if your DD has had a disappointing time at secondary school and it is important you can identify why that is and what the new school does differently to ensure she has a more positive experience going forward.

I agree about seeing whether the school is a good fit for your DD rather than just looking at the state/private issue.

What can the school offer that would benefit your DD?

• class size
• subject availability and possible choices
• are they streamed/put in sets
• what extra curricular activities are available that might be of interest to your DD. Whilst she might not be sporty/musical etc is the opportunity to use facilities/do sport for fun rather than being on a team/orchestra etc

If fees are going to be a stretch, ask about what the fees include and what else you will need to pay for on top

• books
• exam fees
• trips
• lunches (especially if compulsory)
• extra curricular activities

Also check how much the uniform costs, and how much you need (especially PE kit). Ask about bursaries. Each school has different requirements.

I would say she needs to be braver! My DDs both went to a private boarding school knowing no one. It’s a case of determination and knowing what you want from a school. So friends have moved on (as they do I’m afraid) and new pupils might be too posh. She sounds like she needs a lot more confidence and I would have a serious talk about accepting people for what they are and making the new opportunity work. Otherwise you will be on a merry go round of schools. This is where enthusiasm for new opportunities, willingness to make new friends and leaving prejudices behind will be helpful. Time for a serious chat I think.

It's always a good sign if the school lets your DD have some time to ask questions of a pupil.

Ask what other clubs there are. DS is at a private school that once had the honour of being the cheapest in the country. They have the usual clubs & sports but then others such as coding, manga, green power.

If your DD is saying she is not happy and complaining of disruption in the classes then she's asking for a change. We stretch ourselves for the finances but don't have regrets. Not 100% perfect but on balance the right choice.

Grades will be the key!

It may well be as simple as if they have a place and she would pass the assessment then she’ll be in.
I’m guessing you’re not Edinburgh? Can give you some specific advice if you are.

@4PawsGood no I'm in the West of Scotland.

I'm not sure if every private school does an assessment? I thought maybe they'd just look at her most recent report cards / get a reference from her current school? DD is nervous about the prospect of an assessment. I guess I need to ask that question.

It will say under ‘admissions’ on their website I would think.

Just a little thing to consider with private schooling. It's not just the fees to take into account. I'm my experience the uniform was incredibly expensive, school lunch was paid a term in advance with no refunds if absent, school trips were more expensive as were music lessons etc.
Also, I moved school at 13, didn't know anyone and was fine.

Have you considered other state schools? which are better?

Private doesn't necessarily means better and it looks like it is going to be a stretch for your with that combined income; however she could move again to the state sector for six for where there are ore options. Or do state until year 11 and private for year 12 & 13

@Tilly9

Have you considered other state schools? which are better?

Private doesn't necessarily means better and it looks like it is going to be a stretch for your with that combined income; however she could move again to the state sector for six for where there are ore options. Or do state until year 11 and private for year 12 & 13

Lots of wrong spellings, it looks like my keyboard is not working properly

The uniforms do tend to be expensive but some schools have second hand shops. Sports kit it always expensive and second hand is iffy! We had lunch and teas included for day girls so not always an extra but it’s not a pick and mix system normally. You pay one way or another. Trips are a cost to factor in. Ask about what curriculum trips there are. The “nice to go on” ones are always pricy! It’s worth looking at the extras list and charges before you sign up. Do they charge for books? What about school transport?

@itsjustlowhangingfruit . Is you daughter in year 8 or 9 currently? If she is in year 9, it may be useful to find out if they have already started the GCSE syllabus as many private schools like my kids attend start early compared to state so you want to make sure she hasn't missed crucial content that others will have covered.
Also near in mind that while your DD may be the top of her year academically in the state school, private schools (especially if they are selective) are usually 1-2 years in advance in terms of curriculum and therefore she may be ranking middle amongst her new classmates.
We are relocating this summer and my recent experience was as following for my 11 year old (in year 6 currently) to start senior school (in England so not sure if it's same in Scotland but guessing it's similar). She had to undertake entrance exams and all schools made her sit exams in English (1-1.5 Hours), maths (1hr) as well as most schools in verbal/non verbal reasoning (40-90min) . She also had an interview with the head/ senior member of staff (15-20min) and the new school asked for a copy of her recent school report and a current reference. I admit these were highly academically selective schools but most do some sort of assessment so best to ask the question when you speak to the school or look on their website. Hope your daughter is happy at her next school.

I had a couple more thoughts. When you phoned to make the appointment, did you ask if they had spaces? Did they not give any idea of how it works? If not, just phone and ask

Also, could you get in touch with the parents of the friend from primary and ask a couple of questions? Or get your daughter to ask the daughter

We don't know their names or contact details and DD hasn't kept in touch since primary. They weren't best friends really, just class mates.

Yes they do have places.

DH doesn't want to ask about bursaries etc as he's adamant we wouldn't be eligible.

I would find it unusual if you were eligible for a bursary. However their rules and guidance might be on the web site. In addition you don’t know if they have allocated their funds already. Lots of schools don’t have big pots waiting for people to take it. I would imagine they have deadlines for application too.

It would be strange for a school not to test upon entry. I have not found ordinary selective private schools to be ahead at all. Plenty of state educated dc get to Oxbridge so there’s quality in state schools too! However most independent schools check academics for themselves. If a school takes 3 years to do the gcse curriculum it means they are taking it slowly. So do check how they are organising their GCSEs. Most schools I know in the private selective sphere do take 2 years not 3 as very bright dc would get bored. However year 9 is full with lots of subjects and good prep for the gcse curriculum.

You should ask about scholarships. DD isn't super bright but still got a maximum academic scholarship.

A family friend went to a west coast private and got really into debate - he's now 4th year at uni and returns to coach the debate team. That's something he could not have done if he had gone to his local state school. So, are there extra curricular activities they might be able to offer?

Bursary information will probably be on their website somewhere but it might be called something else. At DS's school it's called fees remission.

"If she is in year 9, it may be useful to find out if they have already started the GCSE syllabus as many private schools like my kids attend start early compared to state so you want to make sure she hasn't missed crucial content that others will have covered."
It's the exact opposite at DS's school. They don't start GCSE syllabus until yr10 so can still cover a broader curriculum in yr9.

I'd ask what boards they choose for exams, which unis their pupils end up in, including how many girls opt for medicine/maths/science since your daughter seems to be very strong in traditionally 'male' subjects.

I'd also ask what their pastoral care system is like and ask for examples of it in practise.

Ask what they offer good all-rounders like your daughter who doesn't have a stand-out talent or passion for a given subject.

Think precisely about what has put you off the state school and ask about those aspects of life at the private school(s).

Ask to be shown around. Also trust your daughter's instinct on a school. My DC dawdled, bored, around every school, private and state, except one, where they had to be dragged out at closing time on Open Day. It was the right school for them and treated them brilliantly.

Scholarships are decided well in advance of a late entry for September, surely? There are deadlines for such things and you take exams to get them. Usually after Christmas.

Plenty of state alumni go back into state schools to help out. If they are still around.

I am from the west of Scotland and went to private school. 13 assuming going into S2 or S3 is a good time to move. I don’t think anyone will have formally started the curriculum for Nat 5s.

It’s a conversation between yourselves and the school - treat it as such. There’s been a lot of movement everywhere due to COVID. I know some children of a similar age in Glasgow/West of Scotland (StC) private schools and there is a broad range of ability and activity. It’s really different from the level of competitiveness where I live now in north London so not all of the advice is transferable.

Good luck OP hope your daughter gets what she needs.