Considering move from state to private - what to ask?

[itsjustlowhangingfruit]

DD is 13 and not happy at her state school. We are considering a move to private. we have an initial zoom call with the principal and head of year, and then a visit the next day to the school with DD.

What should we be aware of? What should we be asking? What should we be looking for? Any ideas and tips appreciated!

DH and I went to state school so no real experience of private. DH thinks we will not be eligible for a bursary as our combined income is between £65-70,000 (one of the other schools we looked at said those with that income wouldn't get bursaries).

My DPs have offered to help with the costs but its still a lot. We would find a way to pay it regardless if it means DD was happy.

DD is a smart girl, getting at least 80% in all her school tests, but she's not skilled in a particular subject. She used to be in her school's brass band but got bored of it. She's not sporty or outdoorsy either. She does like Art best but I wouldn't say gifted.

The private school we are looking at talks a lot on its website about music, drama, sports and DD doesn't really like any of these things so I'm not sure if the school would be looking for that kind of talent from her or if they'd be happy to take her anyway, especially as her grades and behaviour are all good.

Anyway, any advice welcomed.

No friends professionally in things that interest her - she's interested in art, chemistry and music (although the latter more as a hobby - its not something she wants to study). Many of my peers did not go to university and those that did are doing things that aren't her area of interest.

She wants to do primary teaching in the future, although that career idea might change as she's still only 13.

Op, I have a ds who was utterly bored by state primary school and was becoming angry and resentful that they were so slow.
We visited the local state secondaries and also two independents, a well known one and a small non-selective one. I went to state and am a mid earning single mum so not their typical parent.

Ds liked the small local one of all the schools because of their science and maths which he said was faster and much more interesting. He did three taster days.
Class sizes are smaller which is good for teaching but also limits the number of potential friends, so you probably don't want too small
Organise some taster days, ask if there are any events coming up (sports days, summer fairs etc) where you can get a feel for the social side of the school, and ask to see all their exam figures if they don't publish them. If they have a 6th form, check what % stay into 6th form. Some schools have a nasty habit of asking pupils who haven't performed well to leave after GCSEs, which I think is rotten.
But most of all, don't let the fact that it's private, put you off. They're just people the same as you. Listen to what your daughter thinks too. Good luck.

OP, I feel I'm haranguing you, slightly! I hope it doesn't feel like that. You may have guessed that I also, several centuries ago, moved at 13 from state to independent school. Comprehensive schools were quite new then (I'd anticipated grammar school via the 11+ but suddenly that option disappeared.) Mine was perfectly fine - no disruptions or major concerns - my parents were ambitious for their children and I was expected to work hard and do well - but it was still a huge culture shock moving to a highly academic, independent girls' school. Essentially, the horizons of my new schoolmates were just so much broader. It wasn't just the riding and sailing and Grade 7 music and proper Latin teaching; their parents had jobs in institutions I'd barely heard of, there was a familiarity with the world outside England, a knowledge of the existence of conservatoires, drama schools, art schools, as well as the clear assumption of university ... I never went on the skiing trips, but I did begin to learn how the people who ran the country conducted their lives.

As regards your daughter's primary school teaching ambitions - it sounds as if she's naming the only profession she has much familiarity with?

One thing you could usefully do with her, while life is still rather restricted, is have a look at the Art, Chemistry and Mathematics departments of some universities. Everything is available on their websites; let her investigate both the undergraduate curricula and the research currently going on and read how the students got there. Does she have any opinion or excitement about the science presently rescuing us from the global pandemic?

Sorry, you said Music, not Maths - but the point still stands!

From a practical point of view find out when they start gcse courses - my school is private but we start our gcse course for history in year 9 - you don't want a late move to affect option choices

Its national 5s in Scotland and they start this year, over 2 years, then its Highers (A level equivalent)

I’m really glad you liked the school, at least you have one option now. In terms of your DD’s concerns, they are probably reasonably realistic. My DD dislikes being picked out too (at an indie with small class sizes) but she manages as the teachers tend to make it fun (eg throwing a tennis ball around in language lessons).

Ideally though, you would have a choice and your dd could decide for herself. How much do you know about the other state school?

The state school has 11 subjects that they do in their 3rd year which is a lot, whilst her current school makes them do 8 as does the private school.

The other state school is a bigger school than her current one and is in a more rural location, with pupils coming from a more spread out area, so we're trying to say to her that it might be harder to make a friend compared to the private school which is nearer and takes pupils from the local area (day pupils) and boarders from around the UK and world.

The state school is in the top 20 of exam league tables, the private school had 88% of pupils getting A grades and 99% getting C or above. That's really good.

The state school has an active LGBTQ+ group but DD doesn't identify as LGBTQ+. It also has a swimming pool as its building is also the local sports centre.

DD is keen on the swimming pool although she never goes swimming and it would be a longer day for her if she were to stay to go swimming - no bus home after 4pm either and we'd be at work.

The private school sounds best for her.

Interesting hearing "MayI's* post/past. Much depends on the private school, but I agree they can show children a wider choice of careers including simply from what the friends' parents do. Almost all my children didn't go on school ski trips (simply because we went skiing as a family anyway and those were in nicer hotels!) but their private day schools have a wide mix of pupils including lots of children with 4 or 5 adults running corner shops etc putting every last penny into one child's school fees - by no means everyone is a the son of a diplomat or leading banker.

I'm more excited about the private school option now the OP has revealed it also has boarders. (Not sure if primarily day with boarding or vice versa.) I honestly think an international student body is itself the best education in the world. Obviously one can find this in central London state schools, and to some extent in other cities' schools - perhaps less so in deprived areas of Scotland? (Though I'm aware that refugees are often 'dispersed' to Scotland.)

The state school option got back to us to say DD won't be able to do all the options she had hoped to do course wise due to lack of spaces in these subjects.

They say they've sent us the list of subjects that still has spaces but we've not recieved it. We've given them 4 email addresses but nothing. Have checked spam/junk too. So that's not a great start.

They did mention some courses she could take instead of the ones she wanted, for example graphic communication and computing, both which she says she hates.

They've offered us a visit on the last day of term at 4pm. Can't see the school during the day due to Covid.

DD is saying she still wants to go there and she'll do the subjects she doesn't want to so she can go but I think DD is being silly. She's still only 13 and clearly still worried about the private school being 'posh' and 'strict'.

Why should DD do subjects she's not keen on just to go to a state school she thinks she'll like better, but is further away and less likely to make friends locally.

We've contacted the private school to say we want to proceed with the application but DH thinks we should still go to the state school visit just to see what its like and DD is still saying she wants that option. I really don't think its the best option for her.

A really good private school should find something your dd is really good at and encourage it. My dd has ended up being really good at debating (was really shy when she first joined) and tennis (had never played before). The teachers suggested she try both then immediately encouraged her, put her in teams etc. It's that that gives them loads of confidence IME.

DH and I are arguing as DD keeps saying she wants to go to the state school because the other school is too 'posh' and she doesn't want small classes in case she is expected to speak up more. She also thinks the uniform is 'too strict' but I checked and its less strict than I thought. The state school subject options are not really what she wants to take for national 5 (GCSE equivalent) but she's saying she "doesn't care". I think she just wants something similar to her old school but with different friends, even though its further away and therefore friends might be further away. They might not even be any better than the 'friends' she had previously. DH is saying it should be her choice but what if its a choice we regret in 6 months time? I really want her to go to the private one, she's so smart and would really benefit from the better education and better behaviour there.

You know your dd but one of mine went to state school until year 9 when we moved her to the private school. It's worth mentioning that she almost immediately lost all her state school friends - just wasn't invited to anything any more so that that was that. It's almost 2 years in and now I can barely get her to come home she loves it so much.

I think she just wants something similar to her old school but with different friends

Have you tried modelling resilience to your DD, instead of running around in circles (and potentially beggaring yourselves) because she doesn't like this, doesn't like that, hates this, hates that?

Ask her to try one term in the private school and tell her that if she hates it she can move again. I'm sure the state school will still have places later. The likelihood is that she will move and never look back.

So, no progress in persuading her that making herself completely invisible, and refusing to willingly take any active part in lessons is the road to nowhere?

No doubt she'll do well anyway - but it seems such a waste of her school life. Never mind any new school - you really, really need to be interrogating her current school in the attitudes they're instilling in pupils.