Whitgift fees vs local girls independent schools

[Treeblossoms]

Why are Whitgift fees so much higher than the local girls independent schools? 21k vs 16k at Old Palace and Croydon High School. Are the girls schools just seen as less desirable /prestigious because they are girls schools?? What do you actually get at Whitgift for your 5k extra compared to the girls school? If it’s better facilities and tuition, is there a London girls independent school that is equivalent to Whitgift?

For some reason the differential fills me with indignation! I want my children to have an equivalent education and, assuming DS and DD pass the tests, it doesn’t sit well with me to be paying 25% more on one than the other.

@Treeblossoms , secondary school fees vary widely. In general girls schools are slightly cheaper for example Surbiton High V Hampton.

But why are girls schools cheaper in general?

Croyden High School is part of the GDST which is a group of many (girls) schools. I was always told that this meant the individual schools benefited from some economies of scale and therefore lower fees.

Are girls day schools routinely 25% cheaper than boys schools? Not in my experience?

All large independent schools will have fee levels set by a committee - perhaps Whitgift has some large capital projects/bursaries planned -could be lots of different reasons.

I know the GDST schools tend to be cheaper - think they work together so probably save some costs that way?

And why because something is cheaper? Doesn't mean it's inferior in any way?

CHS is £17,100 by the time you get to GSCEs/A level years.

Trinity (part of the same Foundation as Whitgift) is increasing fees to £19,100 next year having frozen them this year due to the pandemic. There is a lot of variation.

Locally, it is rumoured that Whitgift fees are more to pay for the boarding houses which were recently built and for the upkeep of all the animals

HAving had recent experience of both I would say that the facilities at Trinity are better than those at CHS.

Well generally you charge more either because you’re offering more or because you’re perceived to be better/more prestigious. Otherwise why would parents be willing to pay the higher fees. Obviously I would prefer both to be cheaper in an ideal world!

Perhaps I should have said *generally you can get away with charging more either because ...

I think in this precise example, yes the boys schools are seen as more prestigious. Until recently, both the girls schools you mention have been very small scale and not made much of an impact, although CHS is certainly growing in size. For girls, the desirable schools seem to be further in to London. Neither are mentioned much on the Mumsnet threads about south London private school entrance exams - no where near the same level as Trinity and Whitgift are on the boys threads for example.

Yes I’ve noticed that there’s nowhere near as much discussion about the Croydon girls school as there are about the boys.

Whitgift is also higher than Trinity.

Bear in mind also that the boys schools give out absolutely loads of scholarships at entry point. I don't think I know a boy that pays the full school fees.

Old Palace is part of the Whitgift Foundation and I understand also gives out lots of bursaries and scholarships.

Trinity School and Emanuel charge lower fees (£19K). Emanuel even includes the lunches in the fees.

the 3 x Dulwich schools are £21K/year.

Sometimes the facilities justify the hike, sometimes not ! you need to look closely at what you get for the money on a case by case basis.

It's prestige rather than quality - they charge what they can get away with! Our local independent charges £11k a year and got 32 into oxbridge in 2019 (no idea for last year) but the local market wouldn't sustain higher fees, they don't have a waiting list whereas whitgift (where I grew up, unfortunately) had plenty of parents willing to pay!

Parents unfortunately value girls education less, I know several who sent girls to state school but educated boys privately, and parents with only girls are less likely to seek private Ed partly because they achieve better results at state school I suspect

GDST also gives out burseries and scholarships.

Many boys do not receive any support - I think implying that most do is unreasonable. I think Trinity has about 17% receiving bursaries. More I think get some form of scholarship, but not sure of the figures.

Boys’ schools usually have more extensive grounds to maintain.

Yes, historically girls school were always cheaper. Those that still are, offer less.

But a 400+ year old school is generally always going to have more money and more facilities than a 100 year old all girls' school.

So even if there were equal fees, it wouldn't mean equality as in top of the fees issues, girls school have far fewer endowments that historic all boys schools use to fund bursaries, buildings and projects because 1) newer and 2) women don't donate money the same as old boys did/do now.

You would need to delve in to their accounts to discover how much fee income pays for things versus endowments and investments. But generally there is a huge difference for boys/coed versus all girls.

For "better" all girls schools, you'd need to look at St Paul's, Benenden, etc. which arguably beat Whitgift hands down.

Or a coed school that used to be all boys that both can thrive in?

And sadly, yes, I also know families who pay private for a boy and state for the girl 😔

@haricot - "economies of scale" at GDST schools actually transfers as paying their staff a lot less than they would earn at say Whitgift. It means the bigger, oversubscribed schools effectively subsidise the smaller ones which would not be financially viable on their own.

Girls schools often pay a lot less to their staff. A vast bulk of private school expenditure is staff salaries.

It’s kind of amazing that even in the private sector, girls are effectively discriminated against compared to their male peers I get the point that some of it is due to reasons of history and the accumulation of wealth in older boys school, but it’s still frustrating. I certainly want my children to have an equal or equivalent education. I know that either way they would be extremely privileged to go to either school but it still doesn’t sit well with me for DS to received more opportunities or a more prestigious education than DD, especially given how much harder girls have it post-school- in university and the workplace.

My father was angry about this in the 80s when my brother’s school fees were 50% higher than mine (GSDT school).

Surely, just by looking at the facilities, you can see that Whitgift is bigger and has more facilities.
The education may be the same in the classroom, but they have to pay for the upkeep of facilities. Infact, I would go as far as to say they are on par with a lot of prestigious boarding schools in the country.

I don't think it would go down well for full fee paying parents to be assumed not to pay full fees. I know a lot of parents who who pay the full whack at Whitgift.

OP why do you think lower school fees = discrimination? That makes no sense.

you choose a school for your child (ds or dd) and each school sets its fees.

lower fees does not equate to worse school?

@LizziesTwin I like your dad!!

@ChnandlerBong what I’m saying is there must be a reason why Whitgift charges and can command such high fees. As has been pointed out, they have better grounds and are seen as more prestigious, also mentioned is that boys schools pay teachers more. All these things point to a less advantageous education or experience for the girls in the “equivalent” local independent girls schools including one that is part of the same charitable foundation as Whitgift. Perhaps discrimination is not the right word but what I mean is that one way or another the girls are not getting the same educational experience and long-term benefits as the boys.

I agree that lower fees does not = a worse school but when you’re located in the same geographic area and part of the same trust then obviously you do wonder why there is such a huge discrepancy (25%).