French or Latin, second GCSE language

[ColouringPencils]

DD is planning to take German GCSE and has to choose between French or Latin. She really likes both and it's quite likely she'll do a language at A-level. Are there advantages to either subject? Obviously French is more useful in day to day life. The Latin class size will be smaller, which I think she would like. She also enioys Maths, English, Art. Not that interested in History so unlikely to use Latin there. Is there anything else to consider to help choose between the two?

Latin won't have an oral element, obviously.

Is she thinking of doing anything medical in the future ?

Yes, it is a slight possibility @Lulu1919. She also quite likes plants! I don't know if they are good enough reasons not to do French, though.
TBH I am kind of pushing Latin because I think it might be useful for studying other languages, which she may like to do in the future, and because of the smaller class size, as she is very quiet. But I don't know if that makes sense when French is a far more practical language. @ellmau she doesn't seem to mind oral in French and German so far, but does consider Latin 'easier'.

It's a pity the school makes them choose but that's how it goes with languages at the moment..........

Much though I love French, if your daughter likes how languages work, Latin is great for teacher structure and grammar so may be the better option. I did French and Latin at A Level (and uni) and I'm glad I did them both as opposed to two MFLs.

DS chose Latin as second language instead of French and enjoyed it. Their syllabus was Latin and Roman Civilisation, so part history so check what your DD's is.

We were having this very conversation today and I came down on the side of Latin, although I would have opted for Spanish if it was an option. I did Latin and it is a great foundation for other European languages and understanding how language works. But it's also good if you like puzzles as there is quite a bit of working things out, sort of like cryptic crosswords. An interest in history helps though as obviously all the texts are from a couple of thousand years ago!

I'm in my 40s so not up with what looks good on a cv currently but I did German, French and Latin for my GCSEs. Then chose between French and Latin for A level. Chose French on the basis it would be more relevant. Truth is it hasn't been except on holidays, booking accommodation, asking directions etc. When it has been very helpful. Though not that many countries in the world speak French. On the whole though, I wish I'd done Latin. More interesting, smaller class sizes. Being able to speak modern languages is so helpful, but there are other opportunities. I did History at university and we had to take a language so I did Spanish then and carried it on at night school. There's always the option to study languages in your spare time, so if I were her, I'd chose the one she prefers and the one she's likely to get a better grade in.

Worth also thinking about which languages her preferred school/college offers at A' Level if she wishes to continue studying Latin (or German or French). Hopefully if her school has a 6th form then they will already run A' Level MFL, but sadly sometimes they don't run due to low numbers. Not trying to put you off - I am an MFL teacher - just something to consider alongside doing the language she prefers.

@ColouringPencils

Yes, it is a slight possibility *@Lulu1919*. She also quite likes plants! I don't know if they are good enough reasons not to do French, though. TBH I am kind of pushing Latin because I think it might be useful for studying other languages, which she may like to do in the future, and because of the smaller class size, as she is very quiet. But I don't know if that makes sense when French is a far more practical language. *@ellmau* she doesn't seem to mind oral in French and German so far, but does consider Latin 'easier'.

Sounds like Latin is the way forward.....

yep..if you're devoting precious time to learning anything in a classroom it should at least be useful..French wins hands down.Latin-wtf- its 2021 not1821🤣

MFL is my subject and I would say French will be more generally useful. German is already quite niche :( and Latin even more so. So French might be a better shout as more generally used (eg if she wanted to end up teaching MFL!).

But if she prefers Latin then in all honesty she should take that. As it is less usual it would stand out on her CV at least.

How depressing that German is already considered niche! It's really sad the way the teaching of language in this country seems to have been deprioritised. In my DC school they do have to take a language GCSE, but I know in other schools locally that is just in with the other options. Still undecided what to advise her. Say, if she wanted to do a different language at uni eg Chinese, that doesn't have a Latin root, would there be any advantage to having either French or Latin?

I did German, Latin and French at GCSE and A Level. I found Latin much easier and it gives you a great party piece (swears in Latin and translating inscriptions sound fairly impressive). Seriously though Latin is really good if you are interested in words and where they come from.

I did French, Spanish and Latin and then French and Spanish at A level. I would do French and Latin as French is a romance language and more widely spoken than German. I did German GCSE when I was doing A Levels so it may be possible to pick up another modern language then if she has a particular interest in languages.

@PatMustardsBigTool

Worth also thinking about which languages her preferred school/college offers at A' Level if she wishes to continue studying Latin (or German or French). Hopefully if her school has a 6th form then they will already run A' Level MFL, but sadly sometimes they don't run due to low numbers. Not trying to put you off - I am an MFL teacher - just something to consider alongside doing the language she prefers.

Was going to say this...german around here is falling out of favour especially in 6th forms. It’s rare for anywhere to offer something other than French/spanish for a level. For this reason I would do French if she’s keen on doing mfl at a-level or uni. I’m all for Latin and German but unfortunately options to continue them are disappearing

I'm another who took German, French and Latin at O'Level!

My first thought was that Latin would potentially open the door to Classics at university. But you've said she's not interested in History, so ...

However, if she's keen on Botany then obviously Latin would be an excellent choice! (I first got into gardening as an adult because I found botanical Latin so enticing.) Certainly a glorious university subject.

Thirdly, French is pretty easy to learn (and never well taught at school). A small class of Latin enthusiasts would be heavenly.

My son did french and latin at gcse. He is doing French at a level and is going on to languages at uni. The latin is opening the door to spanish and Italian.

Latin wasn't available for A level but the school ran latin classes as enrichment. Would that be an option?

@ColouringPencils out of about half a dozen sixth forms in my city, only one (my local school) has anyone doing A level German.

My degree is in German (and not French) so when I was looking for a job as a teacher (I retrained a dozen years ago) I had to have somewhere that taught German (I do offer French as well!) and it wasn't easy. More and more schools are dropping German altogether.

I did Latin O level btw (also Greek and Spanish) and did enjoy it; its deffo useful. I was lucky to be able to do so many languages (three at A level) and your dd is lucky to be able to choose two.

French and German keeps every MFL door open. Take them at A level too. Latin could be a club if there is one. Latin botany is just learnt as you go along.

My DD did French and Italian - A level and degree. If you can do French and German you have proved you can do MFL. So Chinese, Italian, Portuguese, Norse and Russian and even Arabic open up to you. One A level is not very broad and Latin is a bit niche. So I would definitely say French. Keep both going though.

French. Latin is nice if you like classics and the Romans but no-one speaks it, you don't even need it to study Classics.

With French she will actually have another spoken language.

She'll have loads of 'how languages work' with German, and any foreign language because they all work a bit differently. It's interesting to see how different languages work differently.

Actually (I'm currently a mature student back at uni), of the GCSE subjects I did, at the moment, Latin is probably high up on the list of ones that have been incredibly bloody useful (I'd only took it because it was a doss at my school).

My current degree is Speech and Language Therapy - and the linguistics element of it, which most of the course are finding really really fucking hard, I've generally just breezed through - to the point where we were analysing the structure of sentences and one of the girls at the back of the class just exclaimed louder than she was anticipating "HOW THE HELL CAN SHE DO THIS" which just finished us all off into fits of laughter.

I also did Spanish - mandatory when I was at school, didn't do optional French as I'd hated the teacher.

I'd say Latin. Great for doctors, horticulturalists, lawyers, writers, actors, any further language study (not just Latinate, the skills/technical terms required are transferable), politics, English, Geography, Earth Sciences, Environmental Science...

I used to handle travel insurance claims and later worked in a hospital. We'd frequently get medical reports from different countries where English wasn't the standard means of communication - we got reports written solely in Latin because they knew we'd be able to translate it easily.

You really really don't need Latin to be a doctor. 99.99% of medical students will not have studied Latin and cope just fine.

I've had a medical report through from another country - I stuck it in Google translate, worked fine.

Learn a living language.

I did French and Latin at GCSE. I absolutely loved Latin particularly the translation element and the history and culture aspect. I feel like it gave me lots of transferable skills and useful knowledge. If she loves it, she should take the opportunity as not many schools teach Latin now.

Thanks, it's really interesting to hear the range of views. Doesn't seem like there is a consensus, except maybe that German isn't the best option! Why do you think German has fallen out of favour? When I was at school hardly any schools taught Spanish, which seems even stranger given how prevalent it is. Now it looks like Spanish is replacing German?