Dulwich College a “breeding ground for sexual predators”

[rosemary201]

Another day, another school
Interestingly, the first letter from a boy

Dulwich College is today accused of being a “breeding ground for sexual predators” in an open letter organised by a former schoolboy that contains more than 100 anonymous accounts of assault, harassment and sharing intimate photos online.

The letter, written by Samuel Schulenburg, 19, a former pupil at the south London private school, said “experiences of assault, revenge pornography and slut shaming were exacerbated by ... young men who ... laughed at stories of sexual violence”.

His letter includes about 100 anonymous testimonies written by girls who went to neighbouring schools, such as James Allen’s Girls’ School (Jags). One claims there was “an established rape culture” at the school.

'First time buyer' here, and someone who read lots of MN education threads when deciding whether to go private. I agree with @KillingEvenings that most (not all) of the comments about avoiding 'bad' (shorthand) kids come from anti-private school parents about why they think other parents send their kids to private school. Also, when parents do express these opinions, it's often a bit more nuanced than that - what they're trying to avoid is the kind of 'bad' behaviour that can openly disrupt class and school life (chair-throwing or persistent disruption in class, fights in the corridors etc). And they're to some extent right that you can pay to avoid that kind of behaviour - certainly at DS's school those kinds of incidents just don't occur, not ever. I have a friend who teaches at the same school, and he says the same as we've experienced - the worst 'disruption' you will ever get is a bit of a chatty class, and the 'punishment' system is basically never used to deal with disruptive or violent behaviour in school because it just never happens. But I don't think many parents think that that means that all private school kids are paragons of virtue - that bullying, sexual or otherwise, can't occur. I really don't think many parents are that naive.

FWIW as someone who now has kids in both state and private, my observation is that the 'undesirable extremes' are different, but similarly small. At private secondary, there's a very small minority of kids who seem very entitled and arrogant, and like to flash their wealth in a pretty unpleasant way. At state primary, there's a very small minority of kids who live with very few boundaries at home and who talk about and show violent games and pornography, and in one case brag (I suspect accurately) at school about seeing drugs and guns at home (before anyone asks, yes, reported and school aware). Neither of these groups are people I'd be happy influencing my kids. Both of them I would believe capable of pretty unpleasant real life behaviour. But look outside those extremes in both schools, and what you will find is a very large majority of lovely, normal kids.

Do the police come into private schools and talk about online safety and sending indecent pictures etc?

Yes, they do.

They definitely did at my children’s school , they also had a programme of talks which started as young as year 7 which focused on pornography, sexual health, drugs , and consent consent consent. The programme included sessions for both the sexes together and apart.

These talks especially from year 9 upwards where the issues became more complex were accompanied by education sessions usually the evening after or before for parents . It was depressing how few parents bothered to attend these sessions.

@theblueflower

'First time buyer' here, and someone who read lots of MN education threads when deciding whether to go private. I agree with *@KillingEvenings* that most (not all) of the comments about avoiding 'bad' (shorthand) kids come from anti-private school parents about why they think other parents send their kids to private school. Also, when parents do express these opinions, it's often a bit more nuanced than that - what they're trying to avoid is the kind of 'bad' behaviour that can openly disrupt class and school life (chair-throwing or persistent disruption in class, fights in the corridors etc). And they're to some extent right that you can pay to avoid that kind of behaviour - certainly at DS's school those kinds of incidents just don't occur, not ever. I have a friend who teaches at the same school, and he says the same as we've experienced - the worst 'disruption' you will ever get is a bit of a chatty class, and the 'punishment' system is basically never used to deal with disruptive or violent behaviour in school because it just never happens. But I don't think many parents think that that means that all private school kids are paragons of virtue - that bullying, sexual or otherwise, can't occur. I really don't think many parents are that naive.

FWIW as someone who now has kids in both state and private, my observation is that the 'undesirable extremes' are different, but similarly small. At private secondary, there's a very small minority of kids who seem very entitled and arrogant, and like to flash their wealth in a pretty unpleasant way. At state primary, there's a very small minority of kids who live with very few boundaries at home and who talk about and show violent games and pornography, and in one case brag (I suspect accurately) at school about seeing drugs and guns at home (before anyone asks, yes, reported and school aware). Neither of these groups are people I'd be happy influencing my kids. Both of them I would believe capable of pretty unpleasant real life behaviour. But look outside those extremes in both schools, and what you will find is a very large majority of lovely, normal kids.

I’ve used both and agree that the vast majority of parents would like to avoid both extremes.

I think it’s been ably proved on this thread that even though parents of state school children are aware that there are unacceptable behaviours in private schools, and often have names, they’d rather use that information to tar those who are at private schools or send their children to them, rather report and protect children, particularly young, teenage girls.

Additionally, I’ve seen many comments on hear saying ‘that doesn’t happen at my children’s (normally state) school - they are very liberal’. In the words of a popular Tiktok sound ‘that’s some b* right there. Part of helping change for good is that we all acknowledge it happens everywhere. We should all be self reflecting on his complicit we’ve been in normalising this culture and what we are going to do in terms of talking to our children.

I started with talking about porn to my 15 year old on her way to rowing camp.

I think what has been proven is that nobody really cared what has been happening in state schools. Bring ‘top’ private schools into it and that is a game changer.
Speaks volumes really.

@nimbuscloud

I think what has been proven is that nobody really cared what has been happening in state schools. Bring ‘top’ private schools into it and that is a game changer. Speaks volumes really.

There’s some truth it that, also much to the private school’s horror, the state system has a more robust reporting system.

this specific complaint began with one person who went to the press rather than the school

Isn't the point that these complaints were taken to the school and/or witnessed by teachers and were either ignored/dismissed or not appropriately escalated through safe-guarding channels?
Or have I missed something? (it's a very long thread!)

I think the difference between state and private is that Headteacher Brown at State School isn’t going to lose £30k if Boy has to leave because of an allegation.

@365sleepstogo

this specific complaint began with one person who went to the press rather than the school

Isn't the point that these complaints were taken to the school and/or witnessed by teachers and were either ignored/dismissed or not appropriately escalated through safe-guarding channels?
Or have I missed something? (it's a very long thread!)

The whole thing is a mess from people knowing but not reporting (certainly parents, potentially staff) girls fearing repercussions if reporting, unsatisfactory conclusions when reporting, continued cultures with little repercussions, online porn watching, cheap drugs such as ket etc making attacks ‘easier’, private schools not monitored by Ofsted, CPS system making it difficult for rape allegations to even get to court, continued cuts in the public sector leaving people vulnerable, entrenched privilege being displayed and reinforced at home, wide spread unregulated use of social media ...

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

I think the difference between state and private is that Headteacher Brown at State School isn’t going to lose £30k if Boy has to leave because of an allegation.

I don't think it's as simple as that. In oversubscribed schools (both state and private), the school won't care about the loss of income because they can easily fill the place. In undersubscribed schools (both state and private), the loss of one child's funding is a blow.

I also think too much is being made of the regulatory oversight provided by Ofsted. Private schools still have to have safeguarding personnel and procedures. Yes, Ofsted can be called in if there is a specific concern, but it doesn't happen often. Routine Ofsted inspections are very infrequent and generally brief, and could easily fail to spot a safeguarding concern (although they will take it seriously if they find one). Some schools haven't been inspected for a decade.

Nimbus is spot on.

@Petrarkanian

Nimbus is spot on.

There is something really interesting in this. Does the press care more about white girls at private schools? Or does it care more about slinging mud at 'elite' institutions? I have to say there is something quite distasteful about how rabidly people have been eating up this story, but not similar stories that have broken about state schools, or about racism rather than sexism.

@KillingEvenings I think the reason it fits with the press news values is that people often expect issues at state schools but fee paying schools market themselves as places where these issues are avoided and yet so many of their customers - the pupils - are saying that they didn’t live up to their side of the business arrangement and did not protect them and even covered up. One thing we all agree on is that fees are unbelievably expensive, and that is why it becomes news, because people do not expect this at places where they spend eye wateringly large amounts of money.
No one is saying it doesn’t happen elsewhere - they are saying the business proposition and marketing model of these schools is grossly flawed. And they are also saying that in a London the schools don’t have a good SafeSchools set up with the Met. Why?

Nimbus is right. Nobody cares about the kids who can’t get an appointment at CAHMS in State School.
They choose not to see the kids being bullied, the county lines kids, the knife crime, the child carers, the kids who aren’t being fed or clothed properly.
It’s as if this doesn’t exist if the journalists don’t see it.
Schools are crumbling, falling down through lack of investment, class sizes are ridiculous. But we keep voting these people in who just don’t care.
Change needs to happen in society about online porn, attitudes towards women and girls, rape culture..... and so much more.
Where do we start !! ?

"@KillingEvenings I think the reason it fits with the press news values is that people often expect issues at state schools but fee paying schools market themselves as places where these issues are avoided and yet so many of their customers - the pupils - are saying that they didn’t live up to their side of the business arrangement and did not protect them and even covered up. One thing we all agree on is that fees are unbelievably expensive, and that is why it becomes news, because people do not expect this at places where they spend eye wateringly large amounts of money.
No one is saying it doesn’t happen elsewhere"

I absolutely agree with this.

This may well be true, but in fairness to The Times weren’t they the ones who exposed the Rotherham scandal several years ago?

It strikes me that the press are very interested in the polar opposites - most elite parts of society (Eg DC) and also the more deprived parts of society (eg Rochdale). Anything that involves the chattering middle classes with kids in a variety schools both state and private, are mainly discreetly filed away somewhere (but discuss rampantly on social media about the others ‘thank goodness it doesn’t go on at our school! We’re so liberal!’)

@strugglinginswlondon. it is PEOPLE who are interested in extremes and polar opposites, and newspapers who provide them with what they want. Newspapers are, more than even, able to tell what their customers like reading (analysing clicks) and give them what they want.

People with kids in a variety of academic places, and and as you say, more than ever the papers know where the clicks are coming from and who’s sharing the articles ...

Is anyone able to update on what’s happening at DC please ? And how it is dealt with ?
We are looking at that the Dulwich schools for the upcoming 11+ of our youngest. Thanks

I think any future parent can expect a robust response to this from the baked schools in particular. Too much to lose if they don’t. Also, is your child likely to be one of these party goers? Is DC well parented by you? If they are likely to stay a decent kid, I think you will find the school responds and it’s ethos and safeguarding steps up a notch. As for parents allowing parties - can they be controlled?

Baked ??? Named

Of course parents and society are at fault - no doubt. However, when you send your child to school you expect the teachers to set a standard for acceptable behaviour and provide a safe place for learning. Some of the victims were boys at these schools.

It depends what would be the minimum acceptable course of action for you @11plusNewbie.

For me, I would want to see evidence that the heads/senior staff had escalated appropriately when the allegations were brought to them.

If there is none, then I would want to see accountability for these failings, which would have to be a change in leadership and clear safe guarding policies. Any head teacher should have a strong moral compass when it comes to sexual assault, homophobia, racism etc - it’s not good enough to say that there were no policies in place at the time.

I still find it hard to believe that it was so much in the culture of DC - AFAIK there have been no open letters from other private schools in SE London (Eltham, Alleyn’s, Trinity, Whitgift) or the repeated mention of the culture of these schools. However, I am not naive to think that there are no incidences perpetrated by boys at other schools.
I only mention private schools as a comparison to all-boys private Dulwich College.