Dulwich College a “breeding ground for sexual predators”

[rosemary201]

Another day, another school
Interestingly, the first letter from a boy

Dulwich College is today accused of being a “breeding ground for sexual predators” in an open letter organised by a former schoolboy that contains more than 100 anonymous accounts of assault, harassment and sharing intimate photos online.

The letter, written by Samuel Schulenburg, 19, a former pupil at the south London private school, said “experiences of assault, revenge pornography and slut shaming were exacerbated by ... young men who ... laughed at stories of sexual violence”.

His letter includes about 100 anonymous testimonies written by girls who went to neighbouring schools, such as James Allen’s Girls’ School (Jags). One claims there was “an established rape culture” at the school.

I don't know what to make of all of this to be honest. My general feeling is that this is an issue that needs to be addressed in all schools through their PSHE or SRE curriculum.

The key is to encourage DC to speak out when they feel something isn't right and to find support within their peers. I would have thought that all the schools mentioned recently will be upgrading their curriculum to do just this, but I sincerely hope that all schools do the same.

Should sex for under 18 be completely banned?

Ha! It's supposed to be illegal for under 16s, but that doesn't seem to stop them.

So you have a link to the article?
Is this boarding school?

What is it with all these threads about these schools. Are they started by journalists?

Blimey. When I was young I knew loads of boys who went to Dulwich; it was a good school, nearby, etc. All seemed quite happy. I was at a girls school not far from there and knew other girls brothers, etc, who were at Dulwich. It has remained a popular school.

I don't doubt there are sexual predators at all schools.

Should PSHE lessons at school emphasize to children that anyone engaging in sex or possession of porn of any kind will be reported to police and taken to court?

PSHE lessons are not there to threaten children! Especially with things that are very unlikely to happen. They should focus on healthy relationships, identifying unhealthy ones and how to get help. If you start telling a child at (say) 15 they will be taken to court for having consensual sex with another 15 year old you put in place a barrier to prevent them getting help with their sexual relationship becomes unhealthy / abusive.

I also feel very conflicted about this. On the one hand, of course OF COURSE it is completely unacceptable for women and girls to suffer abuse. But at the same time, I think there is a very real danger in some of the reactions to these issues that we are going to roll back women's sexual liberation 50 years and go back to a 'lock up your daughters' concept. This talk of banning sexual experiences for under 18s - I mean seriously, wtf? Exploring your sexuality is part of growing up - and it can, and should be, exciting and enjoyable and empowering. It's also important to learn over time - if we make all sexual activity illegal until kids are 18, do we expect them to magically pop out as fully formed sexual beings on their 18th birthdays who are quite confident and able to handle themselves? I had lots of sexual experiences in my teens and early 20s ranging from first kisses to first boyfriends to quick gropes at a party to one night stands. At the time, and still looking back now, I feel like I was in control of all those experiences. Some were so-so, some were bloody amazing, and they all helped shaped the person I grew up to be. If somebody tried to tell me now that I must have been a victim, or exploited, then I would frankly tell them where to go - these experiences were my choice, they were my sexual awakening, and I wouldn't delete any of them - even the crap ones.

I think we need to be finding a way of telling both our sons and our daughters that boys and girls are totally in control of their own bodies, and they need to be free to make the sexual choices they want to make, without pressure from others, and with respect. But a lot of the reaction to these schools issues is seeking to drive us back towards an idea of sex being something that only men really want and that girls have to be taught to say 'no' to - rather than everyone learning to say 'yes' on their own terms.

have a ds at DC.

there is another mini article about it in today's Times - suggesting the issue is - in part- because Dulwich is a 'rugby' school that the situation is worse?

Am in several different minds on this. DS will feely admit that it's very feral on the school bus and in school. Guess that's what happens when you get a group of boys with no girls around?

But I don't believe that all boys at the school (or at any of the schools under scrutiny or even at boys schools generally) are problematic. There is a certain 'A' team swagger that surely we have all encountered over the years - and perhaps the echo chamber for that is larger at an all boys school?

How do they resolve it? Well by talking surely. PSHE, form time, whatever. And by making sure any antisocial/inappropriate behaviour can be reported and dealt with on a timely basis.

Increasing the age of consent is just unrealistic.

I am a bit at all the anonymous testimonies that are flooding into all these schools at the moment. And also that this Samuel chose to go to the press rather than working it out with the school. (He didn't btw, he gave the school the heads up on Saturday at the same time as passing his open letter to the press).

It's worrying for sure. I don't believe any of this is new. I don't believe it's all boys (or all men) and I do believe the schools can do (and indeed have been doing) something about this.

DS will feely admit that it's very feral on the school bus and in school. Guess that's what happens when you get a group of boys with no girls around?

This is a mixture of "boys will be boys", which is far too often used to excuse poor behaviour, and the idea that girls presence is what moderates the behaviour of boys. Boys should be taught to behave properly regardless of whether there are any girls present.

There are just more and more skeletons tumbling out of cupboards.

The schools that people have heard of will be ones which get coverage - there have been threads in the past few days about a number of well-known public schools. But I think we're likely to be deluding ourselves if we think this is confined to only some types of schools. Any and probably every school has its party set. And not all pupils will be partiers, rugger buggers or whatever. Most will be normal, perhaps making mistakes but not arrogant shits.

It's a bit like bullying - most pupils are not bullies, but schools need to be well aware that it could crop up at any time, and need to have constant pro-active education about how wrong it is, socialise their pupils away from it and make sure pupils are empowered to speak up if they become victims (on or off the premises)

Right now, we are seeing the speaking up. What matters is the schools response

I think another problem here is that pupils at these kinds of schools tend to be associated particularly strongly with their school - so you're a 'Dulwich boy' or a 'KCS boy' in a way that that you're not necessarily a 'Madeupname Academy boy'. And so when these reports emerge, they are therefore more closely associated with the school. And the reaction is therefore 'the school needs to address this'. But the fact is that schools have been addressing these types of issues - for years. In fact, I imagine that boys often get much more frequent and clear messaging on consent and sexual violence at school than they do in many cases at home, where parents might be unsure when and how to raise these issues with their kids. So actually, if there is a significant amount of sexual violence occurring at parties, even it involves pupils from a particular school, then should our first/biggest reaction be to say 'the school should do more' - or should it be to ask, is the school playing its role, and if it is, then what are the other aspects of society/parenting that we need to be addressing here? I'm not saying schools can't do better. But there seems to be an assumption that these schools were all doing nothing to address these issues before last week, which I very much doubt is true.

I read the news about Dulwich College in the media - it's scary, but ...:

1. In all articles one word is missing - PARENTS. I believe that it is a serious abuse to assume full responsibility at school. It is the parents who are the first to teach their children about social principles and moral standards.

If you browse the information on the Dulwich College website, you will find an excellent curriculum, principles of good behavior in the school regulations, and information about the school's charitable activities that are intended to affect their social sensitivity. The school does not carry out any activity that would initiate criminal behavior. At this point, instead of blaming only school, we should go back to the basics and ask ourselves about the role of parents in the process of raising a child.

1. The situations presented in the letter are often serious criminal charges. Therefore, the first addressees of this letter should be the prosecutor's office and the police. I hope it happened so.

1. Most of the cases described in the list happened outside school. This is not an excuse, but takes a large part of the blame off the school.

1. The behavior of the boys described in the list is completely unacceptable. I do not think, however, that the memories of underage girls taking part in alcoholic bouts, getting drunk into unconsciousness, having sex during these meetings (not always as a result of compulsion), are something that should only be sympathetic. Being a girl, a woman, does not release you from your responsibility to think, self-control and predict the results.

I want to be well understood. Sex with a woman without her consent is a very serious crime. This is not negotiable. However, I believe that underage drunkenness is inappropriate for both boys and girls. Such behavior is prohibited in the rules of each school.

1. After the aforementioned press articles, there were many media comments saying that private schools should be closed down. You can find a lot of information on the internet about gangs, drugs, and sexual harassment in state schools. So we should abolish private schools and state schools, but will our society become wiser and kinder without education?

It definitely feels like the private schools are being targeted by the Sunday Times which I think has now run an article every weekend for the last 3 weeks exposing different schools.

But if it opens up some honest discussions about what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour, that would be a positive outcome. I don't believe for one minute that this only happens in private schools, but I do think you are more likely to get more "group think" in a private school where pupils come from a narrower socio-economic background. Things like grading girls marks out of 10 when they get on the school bus would be very easy behaviour to stop.

And maybe parents will become more aware of what goes on at teenage parties and try and provide better supervision or better education to their children. It's about this behaviour being acknowledged by society in and out of the school as unacceptable.

@Chloecrocodile the difference between the all boys bus that ds gets and the mixed bus that dd gets is astonishing. That is a fact. The boys is very much a Lord of the Flies situation where the alpha kids dominate. I think the fact that there are girls around is part of the reason the boys on dd's bus don't behave that way.

The idea that as a parent (or DC as a school) could get those boys to behave on the bus is laughable.

That doesn't mean I condone their behaviour. Just means I'm a realist.

Agree entirely with the posters saying this has to be about parents and school working to educate these young men. Bad behaviour on a bus (or at playtime) is in no way equivalent to the alleged offences under discussion here.

@ChloeCrocodile

DS will feely admit that it's very feral on the school bus and in school. Guess that's what happens when you get a group of boys with no girls around?

This is a mixture of "boys will be boys", which is far too often used to excuse poor behaviour, and the idea that girls presence is what moderates the behaviour of boys. Boys should be taught to behave properly regardless of whether there are any girls present.

Ha! Do you remember the ‘Boys Alone’ documentary complete with Lord of the Flies style chaos and hedgehog torture? I had this conversation with DD18 about how (I believe) boys are (generally) wired quite differently to girls - she was very vociferous in her disagreement and said this is an ‘excuse’ for shitty male behaviour that needs to change ...

'Things like grading girls marks out of 10 when they get on the school bus would be very easy behaviour to stop.'

Would it? How? I'm sorry, but this kind of behaviour at the 'milder' end of the spectrum (ie objectifying people rather than raping them) is absolutely endemic in our society, not only among schoolboys but among our own colleagues, friends and partners too - and it happens among women as well as men. Do you really think that some PSHE sessions on respectful language are suddenly going to make these boys sayvto themselves, 'Mea culpa, that group of girls have lovely personalities, I should not have ever commented on their tits and will never do so again'? Of course not. Yes, you could 'police' the bus so strictly that the boys can't say anything for risk of being overheard - but this is just moving the conversation elsewhere, not preventing it. This is a much, much bigger issue than a PSHE lesson is going to solve.

I’m not a parent there but have a number of friends with DC there and at the other Dulwich schools.

I think there needs to be a discussion about the “alpha” / very City-geared macho type of boys that seem to be the standard end product of the school. It’s a generalisation, of course. Schools aren’t sausage factories. But there’s a particular culture that the school seems to encourage (from the outside looking in, and from meeting these boys at school and as young adults), and in an ideal world the school should be able to reflect on that, and on the parents it attracts, and think through the kind of values it is seeking to impart. I suspect that given the kind of (themselves alpha) parents it appeals to that pigs might fly before that happens, but I live in hope. You create a macho, win-at-all-costs domineering culture, you produce young men who may embody these values.

I do agree @doomball but at least beginning to talk about why this kind of behaviour is unacceptable is a start. Maybe it's so ingrained that the boys doing it don't even see it as harassment?

This is the open letter. I couldn’t bring myself to finish reading it all today as it’s just so grim. Don’t read if you are feeling low ... ⚠️ trigger warning ⚠️
drive.google.com/file/d/1mORNC1ETjLCJc-6Hq10o8dURvcdhPn6S/view?fbclid=IwAR2qXI90wLFBsYahtiZ6afltE6Mwjj7Ibk00BYk4K_Y3XcW6y28fLZ0PjS4

Can't read the article as it's behind a pay wall, so before I form a proper opinion or judge other posters too harshly first I need to know....

1.have there been any complaints to the school from the victims/their parents and how have they been dealt with?

1. How does the school /staff deal when witnessing or being informed of degrading/sexist comments,gestures,actions?

3.How does the school deal with bullying in general?