Help! I don’t want to send my DD to WHS anymore

[SWMum345]

There was an article in the Mail, Times, Telegraph and Tatler about an open letter written by the ex head girl of WHS about KCS school being a hotbed of sexual violence (there is another thread on this with a link to the letter). We have just accepted a place for DD to start at Wimbledon High School in September but having read this letter and the testimonials I don’t think I can do it. While the focus of the letter is about the behaviour and culture of the boys at KCS most of the experiences are from girls at WHS (or those from WHS who transferred to KCS in 6th form). Just to be clear I am not victim shaming here and I believe that no girl should ever have to endure sexual assault but I have serious misgiving about sending my daughter to a school where so many girls have been victims of sexual assault. The letter claims that “everyone knew” what the KCS girls were like - but if this was the case why did girls from the school continue to go to parties with them? Why did girls from the schools continue to get so drunk they were unconscious in the presence of known sexual predators? Where were their friends when they were being abused - why do so many accounts reference the fact that female friends of the abused (WHS girls) laughed off their stories and implied it was their fault for being too drunk? What were the parents thinking, letting their daughters go to these parties? Why did WHS not intervene if so many girls were being assaulted? So many alarm bells are ringing in my head and I honestly don’t know what to do. Part of the reason I am paying for private school is that I (clearly erroneously) thought it would provide my DD with a better chance of finding friends who were well behaved and whose parents were maybe stricter about what they did and who they were hanging out with. I have a decent state option that thankfully I have held on to (as there were questions around DHs job security in the pandemic). Should I cut my losses with the deposit and just run?

From our experience, the teens at private schools have the most exciting and wild parties. Big houses, parents more likely to be away for weekend, a lot of parents with liberal attitudes to drugs/alcohol, big allowances/pocket money. Our state school teens are more likely to be short of cash!
However, the majority of teens we know at both private and state schools are lovely, well behaved, streetwise and respectful. Try not to worry too much.

@nosquirrels the letter specifically accuses KCS for not addressing complaints and not dealing with the issue but I guess my point is that if things were this bad and the victims were at WHS then WHS should also have been involved. The girls are the victims in all of this and why weren’t they supporting their girls in escalating accusations of rape to the relevant authorities?

@mcmooberry yes I can see what a ridiculous statement that sounds like but the point I was trying to make was if KCS was as bad as the letter described and everyone knew about it then you would expect parents might become a bit more vigilant. In my hometown a girl was raped under the canal bridge where teenagers used to go to hang out. For years afterwards parents wouldn’t let their kids go anywhere near the canal - I remember my best friends dad and some other parents used to “patrol” the area on a Friday night just to make sure we weren’t there..... is it so naive of me to think this should have been the case with these poor girls?

Then of course the other argument is that the letter is one sided and only represents the “usual” level of bad stuff that goes on....perhaps most girls at WHS and boys at KCS are perfectly nice kids? I guess I was hoping someone would tell me this.

Ok I’ll say it- by far the majority of WHS girls and KCS boys are nice kids. Same as at any school.

Teens at private schools tend to have more money than those at state schools. And some of this will be spent on drugs and alcohol. Which, whilst separate to sexual harassment, may exacerbate it.

You can't determine which children yours will make friends with. Even if you pay for it. What you can do is empower your children to understand what is acceptable and what is not and how they should deal with any unpleasant situations that they find themselves in. And (when choosing a school) you can look at how the school deals with issues that have been raised. Have you not done this already? Or possibly not, since you seem to have assumed that private = well behaved.

I think the myth that private school kids have more access to drugs, alcohol and throw lavish parties is total rubbish and either stems from people whose kids are at state schools or from movies. My brother has been privately educated, my daughter is also in private school as are most of her friends and their sibling. All are very normal kids from normal families who value education. My brother is 25 and doesn't even drink, certainly has never experimented with drugs and neither have his friends who are a very nice, bright, well-brought-up group of boys (some from very rich families) who now all have started great careers.

You don't need to have money to get into drugs!

@babybee93 at no point did I defend the actions of the boys. Shame on you for calling me out just because I am asking the sort of questions any good parent should when presented with this sort of information. It is absolutely tragic what has happened to these girls but it is not wrong to question the strength of the support systems put in place to protect them. I am making a risk assessment about where I think my DD will be “most safe”....I recognise as a parent that I will shape her morals and values and I have to hope that she ends up somewhere with parents who share those same moral and values. Some of the posts on this thread point out that not all parents are as strict as others - some are too busy working ...some outsource their childcare...some have issues of their own. Of course I could do everything right and so could my daughter and this will not prevent her from becoming the next Sarah Everard but I’ll be damned if I don’t do everything in my power to protect her.

@XelaM

I think the myth that private school kids have more access to drugs, alcohol and throw lavish parties is total rubbish and either stems from people whose kids are at state schools or from movies. My brother has been privately educated, my daughter is also in private school as are most of her friends and their sibling. All are very normal kids from normal families who value education. My brother is 25 and doesn't even drink, certainly has never experimented with drugs and neither have his friends who are a very nice, bright, well-brought-up group of boys (some from very rich families) who now all have started great careers.

You don't need to have money to get into drugs!

Private school children tend to have more money. They tend to live in bigger houses. They tend to have more privileged upbringings (hence belief "I can do what I want"). These things all lead to more access to alcohol, drugs and bigger parties. This does not mean this is true for every private school student. But it's certainly not a myth!

[quote SWMum345]@babybee93 at no point did I defend the actions of the boys. Shame on you for calling me out just because I am asking the sort of questions any good parent should when presented with this sort of information. It is absolutely tragic what has happened to these girls but it is not wrong to question the strength of the support systems put in place to protect them. I am making a risk assessment about where I think my DD will be “most safe”....I recognise as a parent that I will shape her morals and values and I have to hope that she ends up somewhere with parents who share those same moral and values. Some of the posts on this thread point out that not all parents are as strict as others - some are too busy working ...some outsource their childcare...some have issues of their own. Of course I could do everything right and so could my daughter and this will not prevent her from becoming the next Sarah Everard but I’ll be damned if I don’t do everything in my power to protect her.[/quote]
I think the best way to allay your concerns is to contact WHS directly and ask about the pastoral provision etc at the school.

But it's certainly not a myth!

It is a myth simply because it's not confined to private schools.

Daughter's best friend was at a London Indie, DD went to some of the parties and they were horrendous compared to the ones hosted by her state 6th Form. Many more hard drugs, coke, ecstasy, ket than at the state school parties, where people tended to do weed instead (according to DD). Obviously anecdotal, but seems to follow with other things I've heard.

And yes, there did seem to be culture of male entitlement from the KCS boys. Money doesn't breed morals. Their sense of entitlement translated into some pretty horrific predatory behaviour.

@SoupDragon

But it's certainly not a myth!

It is a myth simply because it's not confined to private schools.

No one said it was confined to private schools. They said it was more prevalent in these schools (or indeed affluent state schools, I imagine).

@XelaM

I think the myth that private school kids have more access to drugs, alcohol and throw lavish parties is total rubbish and either stems from people whose kids are at state schools or from movies. My brother has been privately educated, my daughter is also in private school as are most of her friends and their sibling. All are very normal kids from normal families who value education. My brother is 25 and doesn't even drink, certainly has never experimented with drugs and neither have his friends who are a very nice, bright, well-brought-up group of boys (some from very rich families) who now all have started great careers.

You don't need to have money to get into drugs!

No you don't, but money helps. I was privately educated and my school was awash with drugs and alcohol. Money and lack of supervision/ parental involvement cam be a toxic combination

at no point did I defend the actions of the boys. Shame on you for calling me out just because I am asking the sort of questions any good parent should when presented with this sort of information

You need to re-read babybee’s post to understand why the way you framed your questions was victim shaming. You focused everything on why the girls and their friends didn’t prevent what happened.

And yes, not all private school pupils do drugs blah blah.

That doesn’t mean that it’s untrue that other private school pupils can have access to greater opportunities for drugs, and that this and access to unsupervised properties for parties can lead to unsafe situations. You don’t need money to get into drugs, that’s also true - kids from poor backgrounds can be groomed into a dangerous scene very easily too, that’s well documented. It’s not either/or.

Talk to WHS about your concerns OP and find out from them what they knew about any of this a d what their response is now. I’m sure you won’t be the only parent asking.

@hongkong007 you are right. I will contact WHS and have the discussion directly. Sadly because of COvid we didn’t get to visit the school in person so even before this we were making a decision based upon “reputation”.

I genuinely started this thread to get some advice on a specific situation. Some posters have been helpful and I thank them.

Forget what other parents may or may not be doing.
Instead concentrate on how you are raising your child(ren). Let them know that they can come to you at anytime about anything and you won't over react.

As for holding state place as an option, this shouldn't be allowed. Once you know you have a place elsewhere that place should be given up. It happens round here a lot with places finally given up in September, you know after a uniform has been purchased.. Hopefully this crap like the fake address stuff will also be stamped out.

I went to the kind of school (not London) where parents hope they get their children in to save on the private school fees. It had a great reputation but the main reason it was so popular was a self-fulfilling prophecy: It had a large proportion of parents who really valued education and were often the first in their own families to go to university, didn't come from money so really expected their children to work hard and do well. It was single sex but most people socialised with a mix of other schools, predominantly private but not exclusively.

At many of the private school alternatives there was much more of a sense of 'well, of course I'll go to uni, and I'll be set up with a good job no matter what.' Similar to what has been said here: there were definitely far more wild parties, more lax parents and more drugs at the private school parties, but in the end, does it really matter? Short of putting your children in a bubble you have a risk of getting that anywhere. I had a great cohort of friends, with parents probably exactly like you want for daughter. But a couple of years behind me bullying was rife throughout the school year and the teachers couldn't get a handle on it. The simple fact is, schools change, cohorts change, attitudes change. The only thing you can 100% control are the messages you're sending your daughter.

Wherever you send her, now is a really good time to start talking to her about this stuff. Tell her your shocked at what you've read, ask her if she's heard about it, what she'd do in a situation like that, what if her friend was unconscious, what if she'd gone to a party she wasn't meant to and then felt uncomfortable. Would she know she could ring you? Would she trust you? Our daughters will face situations like this, things have got worse not better. The difference is equipping them to handle it as best we can. I understand the impulse to try and put her in the place with the least exposure but I think you run the risk of being naive and under-reacting at what she WILL be exposed to, in any school.

Someone on one of the other threads around this subject linked to the peer reviewed study that stuff say private school children were more likely to do drugs and take risks bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjop.12462
I don't know enough teenagers to know whether the same sort is behaviour we're reading about is rampant at state schools too, I imagine it would be.
But @SWMum345 can I please just encourage you to make a decision quickly and not hold on to two school places as that is a rather selfish thing to do when undoubtedly there will be people waiting to fill whichever place you reject?

Great post @namechangemarch21

I think you’re being paranoid, this just happens to have got into the public eye, sadly this kind of behaviour is or was common at most secondary schools in terms of excessive drunkenness (although I thought it had gone out of fashion in the last 10 years...). Of course one hopes most schools don’t have boys touching girls who are terribly drunk, but being realistic, it still happens. If anything this will mean the school will crack down like crazy so it’s a safe place for your daughter to go. But only you can make the judgment, but I think you need to differentiate the actual risk from the publicity - a similar story could come out about the state school next month...

You're not asking the questions any good parent would ask. You're asking the questions any parent who blames a child for going to a party or being drunk would ask. There's a difference. As I said, god forbid your own child was victim to that I highly doubt you'd be drilling those same questions into her

I appreciate that you want to protect your child, as do all of us, but you didn't need to include the points that I've mentioned - it derails the point you were actually trying to make

The sooner we stop blaming our daughters for being raped and assaulted the sooner we lay the blame at the feet of the boys who are assaulting them and they can be held accountable. Mothers, particularly of daughters, shouldn't be querying why they ended up in these situations

Lastly I think saying you didn't want your daughter to be "the next Sarah Everard" is in extremely poor taste and you should consider how her family might feel should they read that

But @SWMum345 can I please just encourage you to make a decision quickly and not hold on to two school places as that is a rather selfish thing to do when undoubtedly there will be people waiting to fill whichever place you reject?

^100% agree with this!
Holding two school places "just in case" is super selfish! Your DC can only go to one, pick one and release the other and don't wait until August/September.

If you don't want to send her then dont, and please give up your place quickly for others rather than hold onto two so make your decision quickly. If you read the article linked above you will see its a far wider issue and you do seem to be victim blaming. If you have genuine concerns then speak to the school itself which is very supportive and strong from a pastoral perspective. I'm not sure what you expected by way of a response given how you framed your question. Whilst it's not behaviour I recognise or have heard of (I live locally to the schools with secondary school age DS and DD) I am not naive enough to think it cant happen which is why I have age appropriate conversations with both, particularly my son.

@stokey the state school place is at a grammar school. We were offered a place off the waitlist on monday and have been given until Friday to make a decision. We did not accept a place at the state school we were originally offered as we preferred WHS but we opted to stay on the waitlist for the grammar as many people do. We have not been sitting on a state offer for weeks and have no intention of keeping it if we are not going to take it. My original post was not clear but it wasn’t the focus of the thread and I didn’t want this to be hijacked with a debate over state vs private.

Which grammar school? Why don't you want to take up a grammar place given the option?