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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Getting rejected from schools

106 replies

cantstopstressing · 11/02/2021 17:44

As is the case for many others, we are expecting to hear back from two schools tomorrow and one next week. I am not that hopeful mainly due to sheer number of applicants. I am wondering what to tell DS if he gets rejected. I don't want to kill his confidence as he is a bright boy and worked so hard. Any advice on what to say?

OP posts:
Original poster
cantstopstressing · 23/02/2021 23:44

@FredaFlintstone

I honestly think it may be time for us to emigrate to a country with a better and fairer education system

😆

The irony of this coming from someone paying for schooling has given me a proper chuckle this evening 😂

You're paying to get your child into a school millions of kids could never hope to attend because of parental income.

Is it fair you can buy a better school for your child when there are many kids just as, or more, intelligent and academic than your child, who'll have to settle for their local under performing state option?

There's nothing fair about the education system. It must bite when you realise you can't quite buy your way out of it completely! Grin

Freda, I'm afraid that's rubbish. The schools in question are actually on a par with many decent state secondaries. Not everyone paying for private schools are as loaded and privileged as you think. Many work all the hours possible and forego things others want to spend money on (meals out, nice clothes etc) to afford it. And if a child is more intelligent and academic than my child then presumably they'll have a good chance at a grammar.

Thanks to everyone else - super helpful and already feeling a million times better about things.

OP posts:
Original poster
cantstopstressing · 23/02/2021 23:46

Thanks everyone. Seeing reason and feeling better about it all. Main thing is DS seems ok and not especially phased by it all, so far anyway.

OP posts:
Clymene · 23/02/2021 23:48

It's still a two tier education system where bright children with less affluent parents can, in many cases, only give their children a poor education @cantstopstressing

And the grammar system remains in tiny pockets of the country.

A good education should be available to all children, not a selected few.

XelaM · 24/02/2021 00:05

Just find reasons why the schools he didn't get into are actually not that great and schools he did get into are. That's what I do about Latymer (that actually was our aspirational school is is geographically the most convenient school for us and has also been my daughter's dream school. I keep telling my daughter stories about why the school isn't that great and wouldn't be a good fit for her and talking up all the schools she did get into, how great the competition was, how I keep hearing that some other kids didn't get into any schools etc etc etc...

FredaFlintstone · 24/02/2021 00:13

Not everyone paying for private schools are as loaded and privileged as you think

Anyone with the financial ability to send their child to a private school is exactly as priveleged as I think. No matter how many takeaways and holidays you have to give up to do it Hmm

That's life. Some are more priveleged than others.

It's the irony of you bleating about unfairness in the education system which I find amusing.

MrsBobDylan · 24/02/2021 08:05

We forego luxuries like holidays etc so we can afford to house and feed our children. I don't have a pension because I had to leave my job to care for two of my three dc who are disabled. The middle one has never been in mainstream education.

When I had to leave work (so no pension now) we moved house to a deprived area and my son got a place at a secondary school which is has 'required improvement' for the last five years. Both he and I were horrified, but like your son, mine is also very clever and is doing really well. I have been tutoring him in the subjects I can and I save £20 a week so that I can afford some professional tutoring if he needs it before GCSE.

You seem to have NO IDEA of how lucky you really are. Be grateful.

Mrsfrumble · 24/02/2021 10:10

Flowers MrsBobDylan
I’m glad to hear your son is doing well.

I hate this perception that everyone could afford school fees if they just scrimped a little. It’s like the “millennials can’t afford houses because they spend too much on take out coffees” bollocks.

Is it really so hard to imagine that there are very bright children who won’t even get to sit entrance exams because their parents don’t even know the option exists? I can guarantee the majority of parents at the North London primary school where I volunteer won’t have ever heard of Latymer or QE or DAO, let alone know that their children are eligible to apply for a place and sit the exams. Most couldn’t afford the tutoring either, so their children will go to the local comprehensive (that the middle class parents are so desperate to avoid) regardless of how bright and academic they are.

Stokey · 24/02/2021 11:12

@Mrsfrumble I do sometimes think Edward Latymer must be turning in his grave at how things are now. He originally set up his fund to provide education for poor boys in Edmonton. Now it exists for middle class parents of North and East London who can afford extensive tutoring.

Groundhogday2021 · 24/02/2021 11:45

OP if I were you I would shut down this thread and if needs be change your username and set up another thread with a different title if you still want advice. This is going to turn into a slanging match about private v state and wealthy v poor before too long which was not the original purpose of your post!

I am totally on your side and really hope things work out ok for you and your son. Too many people still trying to roast you for your actions.

For the love of god, give the woman a break!

ineverstopbeingsurprised · 24/02/2021 12:17

@XelaM

Just find reasons why the schools he didn't get into are actually not that great and schools he did get into are. That's what I do about Latymer (that actually was our aspirational school is is geographically the most convenient school for us and has also been my daughter's dream school. I keep telling my daughter stories about why the school isn't that great and wouldn't be a good fit for her and talking up all the schools she did get into, how great the competition was, how I keep hearing that some other kids didn't get into any schools etc etc etc...
Is this actually for real? Shock You're teaching your child this early on to be bitter and negative rather than focus on the positives, ie the offers actually received? No wonder the world is so messed up!

I have major issues with people joining a process/syatem with no issues only to slate it when it didn't go according to plan. I also have major issues with parents talking down other children/families when they succeeded with something. The way it is talked about here about over tutored kids etc. Almost everyone that voice a frustration over not getting offers from the desired schools, seems to have invested more time and money than anyone I know with children in those desired selective schools.

This is a major reason why I cannot stand so many parents in London - the inability to be humble and grateful.

CaravaggioLover · 24/02/2021 12:21

@MrsBobDylan

This honestly reads to me like nicer problems to have. Your son is clever, sporty and has parents wealthy enough to afford a private education for him.

You need to let go of your furious indignation and work on acquiring perspective. It was really shitty of you to correct someone's grammar up thread.

100% agree.
XelaM · 24/02/2021 13:58

@ineverstopbeingsurprised Err... Confused where have I said I talk down kids who were successful?! What I said was I talk up schools that my daughter was successful in passing and tell her why Latymer (her dream school that she didn’t get into) would never have been a good fit for her

XelaM · 24/02/2021 14:02

If anything, I think the kids who passed are amazing, as those exams are bloody hard and the competition for places greater than for Oxbridge!

Pkaboo · 24/02/2021 16:21

Reading the thread , I think all your DCs will do well. Parental expectation and contribution is as significant in academic achievements as the school. Though whether it means they break into the top careers generally held by elitist families is a different matter. Don't know if anyone saw that program about class by Amol Rajan

www.suttontrust.com/our-research/elitist-britain-2019/

So might as well giver upGrin

Seriously, I love some the the sacrifices and torment for ther kids parents are reporting. I get why op is shielding dc. Love xela's strategy. Mrsbobdylan, you are amazing. I wish some of the kids I worked with before had you as parents. That would change their chances. the inequality isn't in the tutoring for schools. It starts at nursery and the gap widens from there. That's why free nursery for 2yr old is good. A bright working class 3 year advantages are overtaken by an average middle class by 5yrs old

Pkaboo · 24/02/2021 16:32

And success in these exams are so hit and miss. It could be the tutoring, luck on the day, DC's strategy rather than ability.....

ineverstopbeingsurprised · 24/02/2021 16:59

@Pkaboo

And success in these exams are so hit and miss. It could be the tutoring, luck on the day, DC's strategy rather than ability.....
I also think it is the "luck of the day" in some cases. But on the other hand if someone sits a number of exams and has "bad luck" each time, then maybe, just maybe, there's something else in the mix? It is okay to not be shining at everything. No one is. But you have to be able to admit that. At the end if the day, most children in this country, don't even sit the 11+. If you, or your child, can't take rejection then this process might not be for you.

At the end of the day, parental support is what makes the difference. As mentioned above, this thread does not deal with real inequality in this country.

PresentingPercy · 24/02/2021 17:32

As a school governor, it’s quality teaching that makes the biggest difference. Parents and backgrounds are of course in the mix but DC do better when well taught at great schools. This is absolutely vital in more deprived areas where mc advantage doesn’t exist. There are hundreds of schools where there is no added value at all - only a minus. Even MC children don’t do as well as they should in these schools. However anyone affording a private school has spare money from somewhere!

Pkaboo · 24/02/2021 18:06

Ineverstop
Yes but it the bright child goes in with the wrong information or strategies taught by a teacher/ tutor he will fail every exam

PresPolly
Agree quality teaching is of overriding importance and wouldn't want to undermine that but schools in poorer areas that are full of underachievers, don't necessarily have poor teaching. So must be more. having taught myself know that life is easier in nicer school because the parents will do the work, pay for a tutor etc.

Pkaboo · 24/02/2021 18:44

Yes you don't have to be good at everything and ppl will fail at different things but to be labelled failure at 11 which might be the interpretation is wrong. They have room to develop still and should have time to make mistakes

ineverstopbeingsurprised · 24/02/2021 19:03

@Pkaboo Only one person here has talked in these terms. Who has said not getting in to selective school is equal to being a failure? It depends how the whole 11+ has been sold in to the child.

I'm sorry but we are talking about 11+ now and not subject specific exams now - It is not healthy to just look for outside excuses why something didn't work out. Don't blame the tutor/preparations, don't talk down the children who did pass, don't use luck/bad luck all the time. It is better to know areas for improvement rather than constantly blaming other factors.

@PresentingPercy In this particular case/thread, the difference in teaching won't make that difference because we are not talking about parents who don't have time/money/interest with the only option being a school in a deprived area.

Zodlebud · 24/02/2021 19:06

Can you imagine if somehow tutoring was banned and children got into the school that was right for them based on fit alone (be that academic, sporting, musical, arty, performing, outdoorsy)?

The reality is that the London system is the way it is BECAUSE of the parents. Of course it’s competitive but over the years it has become increasingly so because of bonkers levels of tutoring.

We moved out of London as I just couldn’t be dealing with it.

Pkaboo · 24/02/2021 19:15

@ineverstopbeingsurprised not saying u said not passinf in is failure. I said it might be interpreted by child as that. There are a lot of crap unqualified tutors out there. This is my last word on this Smile

XelaM · 24/02/2021 20:00

@Pkaboo I so agree with your tutor point! People usually talk about tutors as if they are magicians, but in my experience what tutors do is explain a concept (usually in a very complicated manner) and give tonnes of homework for the kids to do past 11+ papers or sheets similar to Bond books. I got rid of tutors pretty early on, as my daughter didn't have time to do all their homework and past exam papers/Bond books anyone can do themselves without paying huge money for the privilege. I didn't see the value in the highly recommended North London tutors. It's all a bit of "emperor's new clothes".

PresentingPercy · 24/02/2021 21:00

@ineverstopbeingsurprised
The op said her local secondary school was shit. Hence the 11 plus. Clearly lots of dc from her state primary will be going to the shit school.

Obviously I don’t know how that opinion has been arrived at but often that is equal to poor teaching. Ofsted usually find poor teaching in RI schools. That affects all children, MC and supported or not.

It sadly means some DC will be tutored for years. They spend less time doing other activities due to this. Shit schools tend to have less sport, music and drama. Fewer clubs. This affects the worse off as the MC parents make up for these defects. Other parents obviously struggle. I believe poor teaching in poor schools affects every child. Just maybe in different ways but don’t we want all DC to succeed without excessive tutoring?

northlondondad1976 · 24/02/2021 21:22

[quote PresentingPercy]@ineverstopbeingsurprised
The op said her local secondary school was shit. Hence the 11 plus. Clearly lots of dc from her state primary will be going to the shit school.

Obviously I don’t know how that opinion has been arrived at but often that is equal to poor teaching. Ofsted usually find poor teaching in RI schools. That affects all children, MC and supported or not.

It sadly means some DC will be tutored for years. They spend less time doing other activities due to this. Shit schools tend to have less sport, music and drama. Fewer clubs. This affects the worse off as the MC parents make up for these defects. Other parents obviously struggle. I believe poor teaching in poor schools affects every child. Just maybe in different ways but don’t we want all DC to succeed without excessive tutoring?[/quote]
The two state schools she is waiting on are both Ofsted Good, so I doubt the rest of the state primary will feel the same way.