Getting rejected from schools

[cantstopstressing]

As is the case for many others, we are expecting to hear back from two schools tomorrow and one next week. I am not that hopeful mainly due to sheer number of applicants. I am wondering what to tell DS if he gets rejected. I don't want to kill his confidence as he is a bright boy and worked so hard. Any advice on what to say?

I think it’s odd to ask why a school is very over subscribed when you applied for it.

@Cocomarine

I think it’s odd to ask why a school is very over subscribed when you applied for it.

Why is that odd? I am questioning why the numbers are so ridiculous as it seems to be that the sheer number of applicants create intense competition so that being a clever boy with good references isn't enough to get a place. I get that it isn't enough for the superselectives like City, Habs etc but why isn't it enough for schools which are a tier below this? It certainly used to be. Schools that were a sure bet a few years ago are now much harder to get into. I am asking why we have such a ridculous system which doesn't seem to exist in other countries. I think I know the answer which is London is densely populated with ever-increasing demand on places.

@lastqueenofscotland

I wouldn’t compare with this other girl it’s not fair. I think especially in the independent school system it is to do with exams but also which child would “fit” that school best.

I don't think that's the case either. I think most selective schools skim off the top 10-15% of applicants in the entrance exam before they worry about who would be a good fit or not.

@Cocomarine

I think it’s odd to ask why a school is very over subscribed when you applied for it.

I agree. It is oversubscribed for all the reasons you would like your DS to go there.

I honestly think it may be time for us to emigrate to a country with a better and fairer education system.

It is somewhat amusing to see a person who is happy to pay to get a "better" education for their child complaining about fairness 😂

The fact is that, on the day, your DS did not perform as well as others or did not shine at the interview. He just wasn't what they were looking for for some reason. I get it - entrance exams for my DC were one of the most stressful times of my life. The thought that someone might reject my wonderful child(ran) was awful.

I tried to think that a rejection would mean that it wasn't the right school for my child.

You might be able to get feedback from the school as to what went "wrong".

I think most selective schools skim off the top 10-15% of applicants in the entrance exam before they worry about who would be a good fit or not.

I imagine that for, say, 100 places they interview the top 300 and then pick the ones they want. They over offer in the knowledge that the children will all have sat for multiple schools but can only attend one. You may find the waitlist moves more than you think - might be worth phoning the school to see where on the list he is.

As someone else said, oversubscription numbers can seem artificially high.

Say you’ve got 100 kids, and five schools with 20 places. There are enough places for each child. But every child applies to all five schools - so each school reports 100 kids applying for 20 places, making it seem like they are all hugely oversubscribed. There will be movement as kids accept spaces at their preferred schools where they’re holding multiple offers, hence the existence of wait lists, but it’s the kids who score highest who ‘control’ the movement, as they’ll tend to be the ones with the multiple offers.

One girl at his school who is in the same maths and english sets as DS got a place at a highly sought after school which is hard to explain to DS as he routinely scores higher than her in class tests.

She may have done better on the day. Individual assessments can be a bit skewed if one over preforms on the day and one under performs for some reason.
Also if its not a girls school they may have a minimum quota for girls, a touch of positive discrimination.

Also if its not a girls school they may have a minimum quota for girls, a touch of positive discrimination.

More likely they'd have a minimum quota for boys. It's well documented that girls do better, on average, on GCSEs and A Levels. It's certainly been asserted here on mumsnet that they also do better at 11+.

Sounds like to be honest he just doesn't perform in exam conditions as I believe you have already said he didn't make the grade in earlier exams for grammar schools. There has to be a cut off and however well he performs at school (and whether his cohort is in actual fact as high performing as you think) and so selective schools are obviously going to select those that did best in the exams. I think you need to except the situation and make the best of the offer that you have or take the state option that you get offered. I don't think you can now moan about the process that you chose to take part in just because you didn't get the result you wanted.

My heart really goes out to you. We were in the same position as you last year. Rejections across the board while others in DS's state school class succeeded, and his head, class teacher and peers were incredulous. It was really upsetting thinking about all we had been through just to be slapped in the face. Anyway, spin on a year and DS is very happy in state provision, doing really well, valued for who he is, not how high he can jump. I like to think we dodged a bullet financially, emotionally, keeping-up-with-the-Jones'-wise. We gave it a shot and he didn't fit the mould. Their loss. When I hear how much tutoring carries on even once kids get places at these private schools, I am quite glad we are well out of it. A happy child is what is important at the end of the day.

@Hersetta427

Sounds like to be honest he just doesn't perform in exam conditions as I believe you have already said he didn't make the grade in earlier exams for grammar schools. There has to be a cut off and however well he performs at school (and whether his cohort is in actual fact as high performing as you think) and so selective schools are obviously going to select those that did best in the exams. I think you need to except the situation and make the best of the offer that you have or take the state option that you get offered. I don't think you can now moan about the process that you chose to take part in just because you didn't get the result you wanted.

Well I hope you always accept the situation you and your DC find yourselves in and don't moan about it or dare to want the best for your DC. P.S. it's "accept" not "except".

@user149799568

Also if its not a girls school they may have a minimum quota for girls, a touch of positive discrimination.

More likely they'd have a minimum quota for boys. It's well documented that girls do better, on average, on GCSEs and A Levels. It's certainly been asserted here on mumsnet that they also do better at 11+.

Also my understanding and experience.

@Hersetta427

Sounds like to be honest he just doesn't perform in exam conditions as I believe you have already said he didn't make the grade in earlier exams for grammar schools. There has to be a cut off and however well he performs at school (and whether his cohort is in actual fact as high performing as you think) and so selective schools are obviously going to select those that did best in the exams. I think you need to except the situation and make the best of the offer that you have or take the state option that you get offered. I don't think you can now moan about the process that you chose to take part in just because you didn't get the result you wanted.

It this attitude that really stinks. I am sorry but he is 10 years old FFS. This does NOT mean he "doesn't perform well in exams!" The grammar he applied to had 2800 applicants for 190 places. 1 in 10 get in. Are you actually saying the other 9 kids are stupid?

@MajorGeneralDogsbody

My heart really goes out to you. We were in the same position as you last year. Rejections across the board while others in DS's state school class succeeded, and his head, class teacher and peers were incredulous. It was really upsetting thinking about all we had been through just to be slapped in the face. Anyway, spin on a year and DS is very happy in state provision, doing really well, valued for who he is, not how high he can jump. I like to think we dodged a bullet financially, emotionally, keeping-up-with-the-Jones'-wise. We gave it a shot and he didn't fit the mould. Their loss. When I hear how much tutoring carries on even once kids get places at these private schools, I am quite glad we are well out of it. A happy child is what is important at the end of the day.

Thank you Major, very kind. Very reassuring. The whole process is pretty horrendous but once we get past this I honestly think it won't matter. If they are bright they basically end up at the same unis anyway!

I don’t think anyone is saying anyone is stupid here. Some kids just don’t perform as well in exams and/or interview. The pool is huge, and as much as we think our kids are the best, they aren’t always.

As an aside - if 2800 apply for 190 places, that’s actually 1 in 14-15 getting a place, and yes, for grammar it does mean that those who do get in score (because that’s what it is for grammar) higher than the ones who don’t. It does not mean the other 13-14 are stupid.

I’m sorry your son has not been offered a place where you want right now. I think the WL for lots of schools will move considerably more than in other years. Call your preferred choices, let them know you’ll accept a place instantly. I know it’s trotted out thread after thread, but the vast majority of the children will end up at the school they’re meant to be at. Fingers crossed for you.

I sympathise op, as I went through this last year with my ds and I feel like there is a real grieving process to go through when the results aren't what you wanted.

I spent months feeling traumatised... hoping the wait list would change, emailing admissions offices, clutching at straws etc. In the end I noticed a late round of scholarship interviews at a school in a different catchment area to where I'd been considering and applied. My son ended up getting a 25% fee reduction and is really happy there. I still shudder at the memory of what we went through though!

I really hope it works out for your ds.

Oh and I also think it's worth remembering how much of a hard sell the schools give you at the open days and take it with a pinch of salt. I now am quite glad my ds didn't get into some of the pushier superselective schools with very long hours etc, as I think it would have been too much for him, but after the open days I'd have given up a kidney if it'd have meant he got a place! 😂

Well said leeloo1!

I think some posters are being a little cruel to you op. It is really hard when your child has worked so hard, esp when so many others are tutored to the hilt to get in! What I can say is that often a school that is your least favourite surprises you in ways that you hadn’t initially realised and hopefully you saw something good in it to allow him to sit the exam. Be positive. Your son has done really well to get an offer from an independent school in London, as we all know that the competition is fierce. I hope that the waitlist moves for you in your other chosen school, but if it doesn’t it is not meant to be. If he goes to the school he has an offer from, he will undoubtedly be very comfortable academically and it is better to be at the top of the tree rather than at the bottom, as confidence has so much to do with academic success.

I wish you and your son lots of luck and hope that the righteous parents who are constantly digging at you all toddle off. You have every right to feel miffed and a hand hold is better than a scolding in my book.

The issue will be that pretty much all of these kids applying will also all be "top set kids". So when they are applying at a rate of 10 kids to each place there will be 9 other top set kids not getting a place either.

It will of course have been disappointing but he does have places. Remember there will be some that may have received no offers.

The grammar he applied to had 2800 applicants for 190 places. 1 in 10 get in. Are you actually saying the other 9 kids are stupid?

You are the only one who has mentioned "stupid". The other 9 out of 10 kids didn't perform as well on the day as the 1 out of 10 who got in. That is basic mathematics.

My daughter is also at a state primary school. She tried for one of the super-selective grammars - possibly the same one although I thought ours has 2600 applicants for 190 places. She wasn't massively tutored, we only decided to have a punt in the summer term of Y5. She's quite far down a long waiting list so on 1 March she'll probably get offered a place in our local secondary. And she'll go there if she doesn't get a place from the grammar waiting list. And she'll be fine whether she goes there or goes to the grammar. There are pros and cons to every situation. I'm not disappointed that she didn't get a place at the grammar, she did her best and if it wasn't good enough, so be it.

Presumably most kids at your son's current school will be going to local schools and not getting involved in all the private school malarkey. I think it's easy to lose sight of the fact that for most people, choice doesn't even come into it, regardless of how bright they are. You keep blaming the system but it's not the state school system, just a very elite private school system.

@cantstopstressing, I'm sorry you are feeling so stressed by the situation and I am glad to read that you are doing everything you can to ensure your DC is not feeling the same stress. I live in SW London, my DD (now y9) was high achieving and I get the pressure there is to apply to private schools. I guess I will never convince you and others who have chosen the private path but please looks again at your state schools. A self-motivated, genuinely intellectually curious child will continue to be on course for 9s at GSCEs (as their SATS indicated) and they can access extra-curricular activities too. Of course the private schools will have better facilities, but my DD got to participate in a both Y7 and Y8 theatre productions and a whole host of sports. Any they live near their friends which has been a godsend in lockdown. Good luck in all you decide but if you would like reassurance about state options, please DM me

The jump from state to selective private at secondary in london is a huge leap. He was up against all the kids that have been in prep all along. They all will have come with a very detailed report from their heads who will have pushed hard for the borderline candidates. You could always go prep for years 7/8 and try again at 13+. We left London rather than play this game. Our kids still go to a top 25 in the league tables school but we didn't have to go through the horrendous London process. It's not too late if you want to move OP. You need to be sure this is a private school worth paying for. I reckon our eldest would have gotten into Mill Hill for secondary and I just wasn't willing to pay for it.

OP you say the "whole process is pretty horrendous" but you went into it willingly and paid for tutors etc. Your complaints about it being unfair are hypocritical - if you see it as unfair, why be complicit?

Selection is 'unfair'. Private education is 'unfair'. Having a snipe at another pupil who ' got in' when your ds didn't is 'unfair'. As soon as you embarked on a selective route you opened your ds up to the possibility of not getting in.

Of course the other 9 aren't stupid (probably far from it) but it's a selective process and they take the kids who scored highest on the tests -plain and simple. If you think it's unfair to put an10 yr old through this process then unfortunately that's on you for making him sit for a number of selective independents and grammars.

I agree though that it may be a good thing about getting into the school he has an offer for. He may gain confidence by being a bigger fish in a smaller pond and a bright child will undoubtedly achieve good results anywhere if they are nurtured and supported which it sounds like you will do.

I hope you can move on from this disappointment so he can get excited about his new school.