London grammar school or state school

[Stokey]

DD1 (Y6) is on the waiting list for a north London grammar school. She'll almost certainly get a place. But I really don't know whether she should go there or not. Pros - it's a great school (79 on the attainment 8 score, 0.68 on progress 8), it will stretch her academically and it's mixed which I would prefer. Cons - it's around a 45 minute not very lovely journey either by bus or two trains, we don't know anyone else going there and DD1 isn't keen. We also haven't been able to look round.

The local girls school is rated outstanding, has pretty decent scores for a non-selective (55 on attainment 8, and 0.62 on progress 8) and is a 10 minute walk. It's definitely Dd1's preference and quite a few girls from her school will be going there, although none of her closest friends.

In a way it's a nice choice to have as they're both good options, but I'm genuinely unsure what to do. Part of me thinks it would be crazy to not take the opportunity to go to the grammar school. But another part of me thinks it's nice to go to your local school where your friends are close at hand. I went to a boarding school and never had "home" friends so it's something I feel I missed out on.

What would you do? How do you make a decision?

Do you think that your DD will be happy in the Comprehensive? Will she be challenged or will she risk being bored? If your answer to the first question is yes, and your answer to the second question is she will be challenged, then I would send her to the outstanding school on your doorstep that she prefers. If she has no motivation to travel to a school 45 minutes away, then I think she will be resentful and it will be less likely to go well. If she works hard, and isn't likely to be underchallenged in the state school, then surely only having a 10 minute journey is ideal. I would love a 10 minute commute :)

I should add - your description of the comprehensive reads as rather more positive than the grammar, which kind of suggests to me that you are probably leaning in that direction. Grammar isn't best for everyone (and brightness isn't at all the only factor that makes it best or not). So I think you can be happy in the fact that different schools suit different children, and grammar is most certainly not always best :)

Both progress scores are excellent. When making a similar decision we worked out how much DD could do with the extra time each week - it is significant. Bear in mind that with a complicated journey she can't loose herself in a book, or finish homework.

We were shocked at how well going to a girls school worked for all three of our DDs. I was vehemently anti, but ended up with limited choice. I'm so glad I was proved wrong. Data shows that girls perform well in single sex schools, and our experience is the same. DD1 and DD2 are now at uni on high tariff courses, and DD3 on an academic scholarship at a private selective sixth form.

No brainer imho. The local outstanding girls state school I would say!

Some of DD's friends parents applied for both state and private. We are in SE London and thankfully in an area with Good and Outstanding state secondaries. They sometimes perform as well or better than the private schools.

I think private schools offer far better facilities and smaller class sizes, plus a far more varied extracurricular programme, so if that benefits your child then go for it.

Is the grammar HBS @Stokey ?

@JamieFrasersSassenach no it's Latymer.

@StillGoingToWork it's a grammar rather than private though so as far as I'm aware class size is similar. It's hard as we haven't been able to see round the grammar, DD enjoys drama which I think is good at both schools but isn't particularly sporty or musical.

@CookEatRepeat it's a really good point about the extra time and what she could use it for. Also interesting about the girls. I went all girls and was not a fan but did get good exam results.

You won't actually get a choice though, only one will be offered.

@LIZS we put the grammar school first but aren't in the top 190 that will get offered places on 1 March. So we'll be offered a place at the girls school, our second choice, which we'll accept. Then once all the jostling is over for the grammar school, we are very likely to be offered a place later in the summer term. There's a lot of movement around the London grammars and private schools.

@Stokey ok - afraid I have no knowledge of Latymer. However, having been to an all girls grammar myself I would say it will really depend on your DD - I found it quite a shock going from being more or less top at everything in primary with very little effort to being average among 89 other girls.
It was very much a pupils are empty vessels to be filled type of education, with a lot of pressure to achieve high grades in everything and narrow options choices (obviously very academic.)
I think it being all girls probably helped my focus stay on learning more than it may have, although it did mean I was extremely socially unaware of boys until I left - not so great!
So I suppose if your DD is academic and driven by results go for the grammar, if she is more motivated by challenging herself then go for the comprehensive.
My personal measure has always been what makes DC happy in themselves and who they are - I think if they have that they will succeed wherever they are, but that is just my opinion.
Another issue for me was that my grammar was several miles away and pupils came from a very wide catchment - this meant there weren't any of my school friends who lived locally to me, that made socialising with them a bit more difficult than if they had lived in my area.
Are you and Dd able to chat to any parents and girls from both schools who are in yrs 8 and 9, to see what their experiences have been?
It must be very difficult when you can't visit the schools HTH

It's a shame your DD has not been able to go round the school. Two of my DDs went to Latymer and it's a fantastic school. They were very happy there. Great liberal ethos, not much homework, excellent music and drama and lovely kids. The location isn't the poshest but is representative of a fair bit of north London.
But the journey (45 mins) took its toll. Not home until 6 if they went to after school activities. Friends all over North London - thank goodness for uber. Local outstanding school with local friends is hard to beat.
My DDs had other options when they did their 11 plus but we let them decide. Like your DD there wasn't much in it and teenagers can resent a secondary school choice they didn't make- especially if anything goes wrong (which it invariably does at some stage).
Latymer had over 300 out of catchment in the top 650 this year so you may well move a long way towards that 190. The ranking you put on your form may decide for you but either way your daughter has great options.

I had the same decision to make and went for the local school. The children who go to Latymer from near us have to get up so early, and their social lives and friends are scattered all over. For me the draw of the local (very good) school won - local friends, walk to school. Their social lives are everything as they get older and it's lovely that they know people who live around us.

That said I know people who went to Latymer and they don't regret it.

Honestly, after all “this” I’d go with the outstanding girls because it’s walkable and she doesn’t have to relied on public transport. Another 1 1/2 on a day would be too much for me. Easy for me to say though as I think I know the grammar school you’re talking about and I can see how it would be difficult to decline a place.

I think The Latymer School is a state school isn't it? A state funded grammar school?

When applying for secondary schools for DD1, we ended up with a choice between two guaranteed places; grammar 45-60 minutes away by public transport or the girls comprehensive a 20 minute walk. Ultimately, it came down to DD's decision to go for the closer school 'so I'll have more time to do things I want to'. She's in Y11 now and we've not regretted it for a moment.

Both DH and I went to schools quite a journey from our homes and didn't really have local friends. DD1 has lots of local friends which has been lovely anyway but we've seen added benefits during lockdowns as she's been able to walk/cycle over to a friend's home and chat shout from the pavement as part of her daily exercise. Friends of hers who live further away from their schools have missed the contact and even when school was fully open, worried about having to travel on trains and buses. I feel incredibly lucky that my DDs can get to school on foot as it means one less opportunity to be stuck in a poorly ventilated area with lots of other people as well as giving them a chance for some social contact with the couple of friends they walk to/from school with.

I would go local

Having a child that travel because we have no choice, I'd say don't underestimate how tiring that is. One of the upsides of lockdown is no travel.
Remember after a long day she will still have homework to do.
Also as an ex girls school attendee they have lots of upsides and I found it was considerably less bitchy than my dd's mixed school. Might be coincidence.

If the local school is good, and it sounds it, take that.

Being able to walk to school adds a lot to quality of life. She is a bright girl, will be in top sets.

Then find a Youth Theatre for her to join for mixed sex social activity.

I don’t think class sizes are any smaller at state grammars.

Is there any difference in the subjects offered at GCSE?

I’d do local and reassess for 6th form.

From your username is the local girls Highbury Fields? We didn't look at any grammar/selective schools for DD but have Highbury on our list for our Y6 DD. On paper I think it performs better than our other choices. It's likely DD will end up there and am sure will do well but I do feel it lacks something compared to some other schools and I don't think it offers such a wide range of GCSE subjects compares to others so I would look at that too.
I saw it last year but my DD hasn't seen it.

@Vinorosso74 no it isn't. I've been on MN for a long time and actually moved a bit further out when Dd2 was born, just have never changed my username! If we were still in Stokey, the journey would be easier.

@Storypuff1 it's great to hear positive comments about Latymer, I have friends with Y9s there and they have said similar about liberal ethos and not too heavy on the homework. @MsConstrue it's also nice to hear the other side of coin.

It is also a very good point about how the pandemic has affected everything. One of the Y9s I know haa been feeling quite disillusioned being so far from her friends during lockdown. Obviously hoping this will be over soon, but think there's no guarantee that Dd1 will have a normal year 7.

@AveEldon I haven't checked the GCSE subjects so that is a very good point.

@FoolsAssassin (love those books) another good point, particularly given the girls school has no 6th form so she will need to change then anyway.

Why don't you put another thread about your all girls school option with the school's name in the title, then see what current parents say. That might help you decide.

@flipflo I know quite a few parents (particularly current Y7s) at the girls school. I think a lot are struggling at the moment but I guess that's because it's been such a difficult year to change school. There's also a lot of homework compared to our very liberal primary but I think that will be an issue wherever she goes. There's rumours of general meanness & cliqueness in Y7 & Y8 and gender issues later on but I'm guessing most of this is just par for the course at secondary. So it's not a totally rosy picture at the local school, but really hard to tell whether it's an issue with the school itself. It's also getting a new headmistress this term who I've heard very positive reviews about.