London grammar school or state school

[Stokey]

DD1 (Y6) is on the waiting list for a north London grammar school. She'll almost certainly get a place. But I really don't know whether she should go there or not. Pros - it's a great school (79 on the attainment 8 score, 0.68 on progress 8), it will stretch her academically and it's mixed which I would prefer. Cons - it's around a 45 minute not very lovely journey either by bus or two trains, we don't know anyone else going there and DD1 isn't keen. We also haven't been able to look round.

The local girls school is rated outstanding, has pretty decent scores for a non-selective (55 on attainment 8, and 0.62 on progress 8) and is a 10 minute walk. It's definitely Dd1's preference and quite a few girls from her school will be going there, although none of her closest friends.

In a way it's a nice choice to have as they're both good options, but I'm genuinely unsure what to do. Part of me thinks it would be crazy to not take the opportunity to go to the grammar school. But another part of me thinks it's nice to go to your local school where your friends are close at hand. I went to a boarding school and never had "home" friends so it's something I feel I missed out on.

What would you do? How do you make a decision?

@SpudsandGravy and @RainingBatsAndFrogs I take your point. It would have been clearer to mark the thread grammar school or local school.

@Schoolchoicesucks (great name) she may do. As someone earlier in the thread mentioned, there are over 300 OOC this year, so assume most in catchment in top 650 will get offers. I was thinking it would take a bit longer to process but we'll have to see.

@gooseygooseywanderingfree quite disappointing to hear lack of female empowerment at the girls school as it is something they play up in their prospectus. A new head has just started so hopefully she will encourage that. I was quite impressed with their extra curricular offering when I looked round in Y5. But at that time assumed we'd have another chance to look round in Y6 so was more trying to get a general impression target than ask specific questions. I was also impressed by Bremer, but it's farther away & most of her friends are going to Leytonstone.

We ended up with the options of between private, grammar in the neighbouring borough (about 45-60 mins travel on public transport), local non selective comp 15 mins walk away.

They all to the local comp. All did very well academically, were happy and made local friends who have stayed friends through university and moving around into professions. When there was a transport strike in the middle of public exams they had no problems with their regular walk to school.

They could walk home from school after activities and never had to lug large musical instruments/bags on trains and buses.

Worth bearing in mind that friends made at distant schools may be just as far from the school in the opposite direction - that can be long distance late evening pickups when they are teenagers.

We visited Latymer as a possible sixth form option. DS rejected it as it stank of cabbage! I must admit we were a bit taken aback by how dated it felt, so I'm a bit amazed to hear others talk of the amazing facilities. It's clearly a great school in lots of ways and I know kids who are very happy there. I'm not convinced they do any better than top set kids at the local comp though.

I went to a grammar and was nervous of sending to the local comp, but both of mine have absolutely thrived and dd1 got really good GCSE results. Some people at my grammar were left thinking they were thick in comparison to others when they weren't at all. It did affect their confidence in their abilities though which was unwarranted and a shame

Having said that I prefer mixed sex so that would be a plus point for the grammar in your circumstances, but depends on your opinion of that.

@BonnieLisbon I went to a girls boarding school so was keen for my children to have a more normal school experience. I think my preference is for mixed is based on that, but as people earlier in the thread have said, there is evidence girls do better at single sex schools. And I did get decent results, just wasn't particularly happy. There was a feeling that if you weren't in the top sets you were thick as you say, I'm hoping that kind of thing will have come on a bit in the last 20 years. From what I've heard at Latymer, they are well aware that the children have been pushed already so don't over pressure them.

@flipflo hahaha my DS said the same. You're right it is dated, but a lot of comps are. It is definitely a much nicer type of dated than those ugly school buildings from the 60s-80s.
I often think about how these nice flashy new schools will look in 20-30 years time. New architecture doesn't tend to age very nicely.

Amazed to hear people describing Latymer as "dated". It's a 100 year old historic building!

@IzzyIslington Was thinking the same, but then again it depends what you compare to. Saying that, when we looked around schools, that didn't even cross our minds, not even for DC. It was all about the ethos (and the headteacher), the "vibe" etc. Everyone is different.

@LockdownParent I agree, it's the worst thing about this year. It's so hard to make a decision having never been to the school. The open day videos are basically just marketing exercises. The only one of us who's been was DD when she took her exam & all she saw was the great hall, which she said was nice!

Interesting read as I think we must live very close but my dd is y5 so our dilemma is whether to even attempt exams for latymer etc as even if we were to be offered a place we'd have the same dilemma re journey. Mind you Highbury fields isn't our nearest either so although we might just about be in catchment it wouldn't have the same advantages re existing friendship groups as they're likely to scatter

@Stokey Sent a PM

An easy walk versus two trains at rush hour is a huge advantage, especially if doing play rehearsals, sports, or other activities. I’d choose the comp just for that reason.

Stokey, where did your daughter rank for Latimer?. As others have pointed out she may we'll still get an offer on national offers day making thought of preferring the more local school superfluous

@Hersetta427 she's around the 500 mark so pretty far down. But have heard this year there are over 300 OOC so assume she will get offered a place but not initially. But yes it's a good point, & I guess depends how the OOC kids are distributed and who put Latymer first.

I don't know what happens if you turn down your first choice? Do you just get allocated a school that hasn't filled it's places or does it go to your second choice?

If you turn down your first choice you go on the waiting list for your preferred school (as all places will have been offered in the first round) and you will have to wait for the 2nd round allocation to be offered a place at a school that has a vacancy which will normally be an unpopular school. I certainly wouldn't ever recommend turning down first choice if you get offered it but you would could ask to go on waiting list for your second choice without turning down the place at Latymer.

Really all this thought about travel and lengthy journeys should have been done before you finalised your caf.

If does sound like you now have a preference for your local school so I hope you get the result you want on offers day.

You're right @Hersetta427 but I never expected her to do as well as she did so when we filled in the form, I thought Latymer was just an outside punt. Normally you would have the Latymer results before CAF day but the exam was later this year. I did have a chance to alter it later but actually it was only this week when we found out how many OOC places there were, that it began to seem like a reality, hence this thread!

@foxesandsquirrels

@IzzyIslington, I know it's an old building, but by 'dated', I meant it felt a bit underpowered. After all there's a lot of fantastic things you can do with an old building. The facilities didn't seem any different from my grammar back in the 80's. Admittedly we were only there for an hour or so though!

Looking at the numbers it amazes me that so many OOC people take the test for Latymer when they have never offered a 'normal' place for an OOC child. The fact that that number is around 300 (out of 650 is astonishing).

Would be far more helpful to people if they showed rankings for In catchment and OOC so you'd have a better idea of knowing where you stood in actual rankings without having to exclude OOC applicants. Do they also jiggle the list so that they get an equal number of boys and girls or is it just the top 192 that get offered a place be they boys or girls?

How does your daughter feel about the journey - have you done it together yet so she can get an idea of what it might be like?

Would be far more helpful to people if they showed rankings for In catchment and OOC so you'd have a better idea of knowing where you stood in actual rankings without having to exclude OOC applicants

Would be far more helpful to the school if people from OOC didn't bother to apply! Can you imagine how much this all costs them to administer? It's unfortunate that they are not allowed to withhold tests from OOC applicants but I am told by my sister who used to work there that there was a legal challenge and this was the ruling.

Do they also jiggle the list so that they get an equal number of boys and girls or is it just the top 192 that get offered a place be they boys or girls?

Top 192 highest ranked candidates are offered regardless of gender. I believe that in some year groups there is quite an imbalance.

Latymer are working on getting a 50-50 balance they say (but not through allocating the places any differently of course!). In DC's year, there are more boys than girls but not so that it is that noticeable. But then we had a similar ratio in primary so are used to it maybe...A girl at Latymer is not one of just few is what I want to say.

I think people use it as practice for independents and other grammars as it is one of the first but agree it's a massive waste of time for everyone. I actually thought given the year we've all had that less OOC would apply but looks like I was wrong. It was a huge operation for them getting everyone to sit the exam in a socially distant way.

I'm not too worried about the gender balance.

It's good advice @Hersetta427 to try the journey. Not too keen on taking public transport at present but will try and give it a go if things are easing a bit in the next month or so.

The Ofsted report of Highbury Fields is pretty impressive. You can't go wrong with either choice.

@orangeblosssom the other school isn't Highbury Fields!