SW London boys, 11+ grammars and independents

[Jumpalicious]

Hello, I know there’s an excellent thread for the girls. Not sure if there’s one for the boys? Anyone want to come on board? I know we can’t divulge details of round two grammars since there will be late sitters, but was thinking more of a support thread. Any takers?

"Whatever the school may say, I still think children from the state sector need experience of sitting timed assessments under exam conditions to level the playing field with the prep school applicants."

Also completely agree with this, but you don't need to be doing it from Y3!

DS mentioned his tutor at his Hampton interview (in a slightly long boring rundown of his week I think ) and they asked about it- he just said that it was to help him with exam technique as they didn't do any at his Primary. I think that's fine.

Re tutoring: We must be in the minority / my DS has a 10plus advance place and we probably did about a month of once weekly tutoring for that.

Boys shouldn’t really need tutoring for 10plus but 11 plus is more competitive and as we wanted to try grammars we ramped up to once weekly and a couple of half term time courses in the run up to those.

I believe Hampton asked the boys what their exam prep was and which other schools they applied to in the interview this year - personally I think that was a bit unfair on the boys but there you go. DS was quite honest - I did English with him and he had some outside help with Maths

That question re exam prep is asked every year I think my eldest had it a few years ago as did my son who had his interview this year... I think they wouldn't expect people not to have prepared whether that is a tutor or a parent that is able to help a little....

If you are at a prep school that prepares for these types of exams that helps but some don't as they look to the ISEB pretest (ok that was it this year initially but I am talking 'normally') and don't want people to leave at 11 in which case you need to do some extra work.

I also think it is important to frame what 'tutoring' means. Some parents spend a lot of their time doing prep with their children but don't consider that tutoring but it is in my mind. Our DC were not keen on listening to us ;) so we used tutors. Both from the state sector. Prep schools will do lots of work on VR/NVR which you just would not get in most state schools (perhaps some do in the grammar school areas).

For anyone going through this next year the resources form ExamPapersPlus and their sister site Pretest plus are excellent and we have found those very useful. My boys have said that for them that was the most helpful preparation. They didn't find Bofa that helpful, the maths too easy. Atom is used at their school it has some good stuff but the questions for maths are very wordy and the style is different to most 11+ type papers. Hope that helps someone.

@GrammarHopeful
You can commit to an independent school with an EHCP, as long as you are not planning to ask them to pay for the fees.

Your SENLA is not going to like it and they can be extremely pushy, borderline rude/intimidating to coarse you away from an independent choice, but as I said, if you are not planning to use their funding to pay for the fees, then nothing to stop you. I am also assuming that the schools know of the EHCP, have a word with school you want and explain that you believe this is the best choice for your child and are aware that the LA is not going to be thrilled. Then go for it, and after all is done and dusted, you can inform your SEN caseworker about it.

However, if you are planning to ask for the EHCP to pay for the fees, I would recommend you have good evidence to justify your choice, financial evidence that it will cost them less or ala par and a good SEN solicitor to fight in court.

I do know of a parent who had a full EHCP, sadly dad lost job and needed to move DC to the maintained sector. The SENLA asked why the move, they explained why and ironically it was going to be cheaper for the LA to fund the private fees, than the hours in his EHCP in the maintained sector. So it can be done as well. Mind you this was Sutton SEN and not Surrey (not holding my breath with Surrey SEN).

Best of luck in your decision.

@Ptarmigan68: agreed, we found them helpful as well, and DS had the same feedback re papers being as close as the real deal for the grammar ones.

@SpLDLSA: thanks for your thoughts. It would indeed be cheaper for our LA to fund the indie school than to continue with existing 1-on-1 provision in the EHCP. But given our history, I just can't bring myself to fighting them again, as it took over 18 months last time around with every trick in the book thrown in. And it cost a serious amount of money (self-funded ABA provision plus reports plus advocate costs of over £50k, none of which we ever got back thanks to the loophole that [at least at the time] prevented SENDIST from awarding costs; thus incentivising LAs to fob parents off for as long as possible).

We'll check the offer holders' events next week, but it's likely we will go the grammar route and use existing EHCP to supplement with whatever provision may be needed going forward. We will never benefit from any sport, and I have my doubts about much of extra curriculars too.

Coincidently, anyone knows/cares to share any stories of going from grammar to the private sector, if the former doesn't work out?

@GrammarHopeful

I fully understand your point. The "fights" are relentless and one has to decide what body is worth fighting and putting your energy to it and which ones are just best left alone. If you happen to be under Sutton SENLA, might be worth sending them the costs of both and let them decide (?), without going to court!

Best on your way forward.

@LibbyGray. Sorry we avoided the thread for a little while whilst we recovered from being on the waiting list. hahah

My DS CATS score at the beginning of year 5 were 133 and year 6 were 135, with 141/138 in Maths. He is academically gifted ( as in : only needs to be told once and he gets the concept, has an amazing memory both mental and visual and has always sat in top sets at both state and prep schools) and always earmarked for achieving scholarship level.. he is quirky and non-sporty and not everyone's cup of tea :-), but very bright and articulate.

They do prep the boys in prep-schools to some extent, but he was also tutored once a week for 2 months before the Grammar school exams, to work on his English. We also like to work on year 9 or 10 math's problems together ( for fun).
So to answer your question, we don't know yet the course of action, he can stay in his prep-school ( not ideal) and we will work out the 13+ route next year or he gets given one of the SW state schools like Sutton Grammar/Tiffins / Wallington - on Monday - and we can decide. It has been a very surreal experience as we thought he would sail through ( headmaster, tutor and me looking at his results generally... so he must have messed up ISEB/exams BIG TIME.. he did not seem that stressed to me, but who knows !)

To all, not seen anything on waiting list movements in the last few threads, is it because decisions have not been made quite yet? Will state schools offers on Monday start to make things a little clearer?

Its good to be back on the thread :-)

@Sterou your son is clearly a very bright boy who maybe had a bad day at ISEB. The CATS are really good predictors of GCSE outcomes so he will do well wherever he goes. Really good luck on Monday with the rest of the results.

@Iffiyas - thank you, we will update on thread next week, I do hope some positive news come through for my DS, it’s been a tough enough year as it is! Good luck to everyone

Good luck @Sterou - I hope you and DS get good news on Monday. It does sound like he was just unlucky on his ISEB day. I am sure there will be movement on the waiting lists once the state offers are out, if not before. And some people will have already released offers - we released our RGS place earlier this week and I’m sure we won’t be the only ones.

Hope everyone is doing well.

@FlyingPandas, thank you.

And thank you to those who PM me yesterday. Really sweet.

Someone who is interested for next year's process, asked me if we had the right "strategy" in place, and in insight, possibly not!

If DS is in prep-school in year6, you have the choice for 11+ or 13+ but you can't do both for the same school. You also have the choice to apply to as many schools as you wish ( or as your DS will stomach), and of course you have the choice of all 11+ Grammar Schools, as long as you don't live >1 hour away... as the distance could be a factor. (and who wants to commute for that long at that age)

So in insight,
*headmaster had recommended a fairly long list of Indies, we only applied to 1, fairly local.
*we also only applied to 11+ and not 13+
*we kept states schools to within 1 hour catchment areas only, did not chance any others

Let's review on Monday :-) it's going to be a long weekend again !

*hindsight
(I need to take the 11+ exam myself !!)
lol

Hi just wondering if anyone can give any insight into ethnic diversity at KGS please? My son has an offer there and he is of dual heritage and I’m wondering if he will be the only one

@Sterou really sorry to hear about the Iseb. It doesn’t make much sense. How did he get on with atom? Were there every very weird anomalies there?

We are back and forth trying to decide on a school for ds. He has a spot at Hampton and we were all impressed with the virtual events throughout the process and the school in general. The staff make a great deal of effort explaining it is a school for all boys and there is something for everyone.

Yet I still waffle over whether or not my son will settle there and find a nice friendship group if he's not into rugby/football (or sport in general) and is on the gentle side. He has spent a lot of time at primary school with the girls; boys also but never the football crowd.

Our mixed options aren't as inspiring academically, so Hampton is our preference as far as that measure goes.
Are there any other parents of decidedly nonsporty boys in this thread going with Hampton that could reassure me?

And sorry for cross postings. I created a new topic for my question in the Secondary Education area for as much feedback as possible!

We started at KGS this year, and have a very happy ds. Due to covid I haven’t had a chance to get to know the school well, however I do believe that there are kids from lots of different nationalities. I hope this helps a bit?

My DD is at KGS and I have a DS starting in September. I think it's diverse for the area, much more so than their primary school just over the border into Elmbridge. There are children of various different ethnicities in her class.... I'm not sure how it compares with the demographics of Kingston as a whole but there are lots of non-white children. It's a very inclusive school too in terms of curriculum, art topics etc.

@goldilocks
My history , classics and English loving boy loves Hampton .
He was the only one from his primary
The boys are rounded and grounded -
There are so many different types of boys everyone can find there niche .
He can’t wait to be back
The open space and fresh air -
I could go on and on ....

@goldil0cks , I have a ds at Hampton, as others have said it's a lovely school for all sorts and you definitely don't need to be sporty or interested in sport. It's a really great school and I'm sure all the recent events for those with offers have reflected this.

@goldil0cks yes we’re going with Hampton too for non sporty DS

Did you book an online ‘chat to a Hampton teacher’ session? We did, and this was the first question I asked. The teacher was very much emphasising as others have said upthread - they have every type of boy there, a real mixture, and it really is not just a school for super sporty boys.

The sheer range of clubs and opportunities on offer has outweighed my concerns about sportiness tbh (plus we really like the idea of all clubs being during the long lunch break so they can all get to do lots but still leave school at normal time) and I have also been very reassured by some lovely posters here - who have both posted and sent me PMs about happy non sporty boys there.

I agree that their online offer holder stuff has been brilliant - I do appreciate that a lot of that is skilful marketing (especially the VR headset gift, they know the way to a 10/11 year old boy’s heart ) and that of course they need to ‘sell’ their school but it does feel very vibrant and welcoming.

DS didn't get a headset or any offer holder invites - clearly my attempt to do the right thing and deduct quickly so we could turn the offer down to help those on waiting lists has cost us there. Fingers crossed nobody tells him he's missed out!