So Scottish kids won’t sit GCSE equivalent next year. Will England follow?

[NellyJames]

So the Scottish government have announced this today. Saying it wouldn’t be fair after all they’ve been through. So they’ll now be assessed with a mixture of CAGS and coursework. Will Gavin Williamson follow? My Y11 DD has not only missed the summer term but is now midway through a 2wk isolation. How many more times will that happen before the spring? Announcing this now allows for a smooth process with adequate moderation.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-54423265

Potentially the first time they sit an exam would be a levels.

Which is in accordance with all our EU neighbours who have teacher moderated assessment at 16 then formal examination at the end of their full time education at 18. Why as a country are we fixated on testing our children twice in as many years?

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/21/no-other-european-country-tests-at-16-scrap-gcses

Also gcse should never of been changed and part coursework , part exam is the best way as captures kids who are good at one or other , many don't do as well in exams and coursework prepared you better for real life as you have to work constantly in the work place and prove your worth
Many kids crumble at an exam
Also most uni courses have coursework based well assessments and kids that have done just exams have no idea
Its unfair to expect them to do this year when they have missed so much and some are a lot more than others

My dc school has also told kids to put beat effort in on every piece of work they do and every test incase teacher assessments are needed
What if in may we are in another lockdown or high cases best will in the world we might not be able to go with exams regardless and people should be prepared
Gavins current idea is to just delay for 3 weeks as if that is going go help

Delaying for 3wks won’t solve anything. This current Y11s are at more of a disadvantage than last year’s as at least they’d finished the courses by March and were ploughing through revision which could have continued at home with remote supervision and targeted practice where needed.
This year, my daughter has missed a term plus 2wks. This could end up being 6 or 8wks more by March. At the very least I don’t see how her music gcse can go ahead.

The English government are inevitably going to dither for months on this, then decide against exams going ahead at a late stage, thus wasting months and months of preparation time. They’re fucking wankers.

@Fishlegs

The English government are inevitably going to dither for months on this, then decide against exams going ahead at a late stage, thus wasting months and months of preparation time. They’re fucking wankers.

This is exactly what's going to happen. Poor kids. (And teachers and parents)

@Notfeelinggreattoday

My dc school has also told kids to put beat effort in on every piece of work they do and every test incase teacher assessments are needed What if in may we are in another lockdown or high cases best will in the world we might not be able to go with exams regardless and people should be prepared Gavins current idea is to just delay for 3 weeks as if that is going go help

Yes DD is doing this but it feels like the stress levels are ramping up so early and will continue throughout the whole academic year. July 2021 can't come fast enough!

I think all the UK countries should do the same to make sure it's fair. Schools can do mock exams in GCSE/equivalent conditions so that students have experience of exams before A levels/Highers, my DCs school do all mock exams in the hall in exam conditions so students are used to it by the time they get to external exams.
Whatever they decide they need to decide soon so teachers and pupils know what they are going to be doing.

I’m a secondary teacher and also have a year 11 ds. Everyone at work thinks we’ll be doing cags again next year. We’re all prepping year 11 for it.

@MintyMabel

It will have to. Otherwise we will have a 25 tier system

Newsflash - education is entirely devolved to Scotland, it is not linked to the English system nor has it ever really been aligned. Any similarities are entirely coincidental.

I know it’s devolved but given these are the same children going to the same universities, the same jobs, apprenticeships etc there needs to be some level of similarities and fairness between them all.

I know it’s devolved but given these are the same children going to the same universities, the same jobs, apprenticeships etc there needs to be some level of similarities and fairness between them all.

Because the current system in England gives a fair crack of the whip to everyone? I’m sure that’s news to those who are at the blunt end of the attainment gap.

You seen to misunderstand. The kids will still need to reach the same level of attainment, it is just assessed in a different way. Scotland has done part exam part coursework in assessing final marks for decades. All it means is this year, the coursework will have a higher weighting.

Plus generally I fear a lessening of motivation if exams are cancelled. They’d have to instil same effort in students as they will be tested and marked earlier still.

But the assessment for qualification isn’t cancelled, just the way in which they are assessed. The Standard Grades I did (equivalent to GCSE) were based on 40% coursework, 60% exam. I was no less motivated throughout the year to do well in the coursework than I was to do well in the final exam.

I hope they dont cancel them and go towards coursework, it alienates those who are home-schooled and educated alternatively.

Swinney won’t have thought of that yet, but I’m sure it will be brought to his attention and something will be put in place.

@Nellyjames i don't see how 3 weeks will help either and such different schooling given in lockdown between schools , lack of access to pc , even families that have a pc can have 3 kids needing to use it.
During lockdown we had 2 dc and dh working from home and our internet was slow and dropped out a lot making everything harder , plus 3 lots of people trying to find a quiet place to work and ds who is in year 11 this year ,did all his work but it wasn't loads and he has a lot of catching up to do now through no fault of his own.
The only good thing is he took english lit a year early ( whole year group ) and was teacher assessed
He passed just so at least one less exam for him if they go ahead.
I just think they need to make a decision now and if the exams do go ahead explain how this will be fair to all and what plan b is.
But with potential further lockdowns and isolation periods from school throughout winter and autumn , I cant see how it will be fair.

@MintyMabel

I know it’s devolved but given these are the same children going to the same universities, the same jobs, apprenticeships etc there needs to be some level of similarities and fairness between them all.

Because the current system in England gives a fair crack of the whip to everyone? I’m sure that’s news to those who are at the blunt end of the attainment gap.

You seen to misunderstand. The kids will still need to reach the same level of attainment, it is just assessed in a different way. Scotland has done part exam part coursework in assessing final marks for decades. All it means is this year, the coursework will have a higher weighting.

I think you misunderstood my poor attempt at sarcasm in the original post about 25 different playing fields.

There is already a huge divide, covid has only made that worse.

But England will have to follow Scotland’s lead on this one for there to be any kind of perceived level field for uni, apprenticeships, jobs and college.

There isn’t a level playing field today as the exams systems are completely different. Competition for jobs may be true post university but for school leavers without degree level qualifications most will stay local to their area.

For universities the vast majority of Scottish students stay in Scotland, this year of approx 29,000 students who successfully applied through UCAS only 700 took a place in an English university vs the 100s of thousands of English students.

There are more students from England that apply to Scotland but they are in a completely different pool and their applications are viewed separately from Scottish students - offer rates for English students are in the region on 75% vs only 55% for Scottish students because of caps on Scottish numbers.

Even with that we are talking Nat5 level exams which won’t have a great bearing on university applications as focus is on highers achieved in 1 or 2 sittings. Perhaps a greater bearing for college courses but I think there would be v few English students coming to Scotland post GCSE for college.

DS is in y10 and has been told they to put every effort into assessments in case there is an element of teacher assessment for them too

Potentially the first time they sit an exam would be a levels

Don't most schools run end of year exams every single year? There is plenty of opportunity for students to get used to an exam situation. And many countries don't have high stakes exams till age 18 and seem to manage.

I'd be delighted if England moved to a properly-structured, well thought out model combining assessed coursework and regular. Apart from levelling the playing field a bit, it could potentially give schools back the first half of the summer term to carry on teaching content, rather than endless revision sessions. And therefore my year 11 child might actually enter the sixth form having properly covered the content she needs in order to start her A levels. In the long term, that's going to be much more important than scraping through half baked GCSEs after over a year of disrupted education.

But Nationals aren't really GCSE equivalent, they're lower. After that there's Highers, and Advanced Highers. The system is different. Highers are more like AS Level. Many Scottish university degrees that take people with Highers rather than Advanced Highers are actually four years long, with an initial foundation year.
My brother (educated in England, sat A Level) was offered a place at a Scottish university with the first year waived.

@bsc, but they’re equivalent in a practical sense. They are the external exams that Scottish students of a similar age would be sitting next summer.

Also, both highers and advanced highers are post compulsory education. Nat5s are in a practical sense, equivalent to GCSEs.

Highers get less ucas points than A levels but AH get more.

DC with advanced highers also often get to skip first year in Scotland.

The degree system here is entirely different and it's not a foundation year. It does allow DC to choose from many different subjects in first and second year allowing a lot of flexibility in what they end up graduating in compared to what they might have applied for.

National 5s are usually first sat at age 15.5 to 16.5, highers the year after and AH the year after that. However pupils can enter any of the levels at other years so in their final year at school they can still sit Nat 5s either because that would be the highest level appropriate for the students or just for enrichment. It's less usual to go to uni from S5, age 16.5 to 17.5 but entirely possible to do so. A fair proportion are still only 17 and going to uni at the end of school.

alienates those who are home-schooled and educated alternatively.

It will be easier to just deal with a smaller number of students who need to sit exams than large swathes of children.

@AchickencalledDaal yes most schools run mock exams and all these children will of say sats
One thing uk children do a lot of is exams
Plus many won't go onto do a levels , they may do apprenticeships and btechs and courses that don't rely purely on exams

Sorry should said english kids as i have no idea how the other nations do exams

@TW2013 yes exactly only a few possibly thousand are home schooled , plus what did they do this year for them ?