Thread 8 Carry on Corona Cohort: GAV give us the CAG?

[OrangeCinnamon1]

Welcome all to the 8th Thread for this year's GCSE cohort the Corona Cohort!

Some of us have been here since I started first thread back in yr10, some will be new. Everyone has been friendly and helpful in the past. It is hoped this will continue. Going forward we intend to stay in secondary so any new threads should have 'GCSE Summer 2020 Thread # : Carry on Corona Cohort' in title just to make it easier to find.

From now on our DS/DD may go down various paths so we decided not to be exclusionary and stay right here in Secondary until HQ chuck us
At this precise moment in time we are awaiting GCSE results that seem to have been produced by an algorithm that also takes very little account of Teacher Centre Assessed Grades. There is an appeal process but it was changed yesterday to include mock results and coursework, then taken down again for review.
Trying to protect our young people's mental health.during this shit show , which the government claims is their priority...when they talk about wanting students back in schools/college in September...

first ever thread

previous thread

Great minds @neutralintelligence....great minds 😅

Well I'd be very happy for an email like that to turn up in my inbox today! 🤞

You can’t have a comparable distribution of grades as the circumstances are not comparable.
The grades will not be in league tables.

It would be expected that grades would increase compared to other years as those who go to pieces in exams and/or affected by external issues out of their control (fire alarm did for DD in one paper)

Agree that the idea of algorithm to prevent grade inflation compared to a non comparable year (ie. those who took exams) is a flawed assumption to start from.

Agree that this is Johnson not wanting to Look like he is following Nicola Sturgeon and not being a big enough man to apologise and do the right thing.

The right thing now is different to what it could have been but we have to move on from where we are now.

This is a good exercise in pragmatism for our DC who mostly sound like they are- unlike the Government.

Once this is resolved an enquiry needs to be held to find out how we got to this point to prevent anything like this ever happening again.

(Do I sound a little less like a toddler now?!)

Not a word from the school here @singingstones I think they are just waiting also. I have my appeal "template" ready.

Humour me.
If the algorithm has been an issue to all, all the way along, why has it only been an issue since Ofqual announced CAGs would be ignored but rankings wouldn’t?

We knew for 5 months that there was an algorithm, and yet it’s been repeatedly said on MN that it was the next best thing to sitting exams in the circumstances.
Why are we only writing to MPs now? Why are schools only up in arms now, and not any other time in the last 5 months?
If prior performance, statistical modelling, CAGs and rank order were never going to work, even before CAGs were ignored, why have we sat doing and saying nothing?

Am I missing something?

DayB1Day

What will you do? I know some are thinking of legal action.
I think those marked up are feeling it too, they feel like cheats.
Two of my dd's friends couldn't stop laughing when she told them her grade.
But, it's a one off as other subjects will be hard to scrape through, so if marked down could mean a resit in Maths and fail in Science.
So even those with an inflated grade could come unstuck in other subjects.

That's a great letter @IHeartHarryStyles

I think more sixth forms should do that.

@FloweringFlowers

Just had an email from school, on Thursday grades will be issued, if we require cag then we will need to request this after Thursday and there will be a procedure to follow.

That’s made me annoyed, wanted both on Thursday in case we need to speak to new 6th form would be imperative to have the cag as back up!!

I realise this could all be pointless as hoping cag will be issued as the grade...

That is so unhelpful. So you have to wait days to find out if you have a case to appeal and if you DC has been unfairly treated? It is probably to protect teachers from parents annoyed at their CAG or annoyed at difference between CAG and result. Once again, pupils at the bottom of list of priorities.

I accept I don't know a lot of kids getting their A levels this year - 4 in total that I know well. All, every one, marked down by 2 grades. B students getting D's, A students getting C's. Some Uni places offered despite missing minimum grades, others lost.

It makes no sense.

How unfair that some schools are saying they will accept all those who qualify based on CAGs and some won't even automatically disclose CAGs.
So some pupils have reassurance and others have more ordeals ahead.

Also I think people felt that a combination of CAGs, ranking and algorithm could work, and that did seem to be the plan at the beginning.

Then they decided not to use the CAGs, just the rankings and the algorithm.

Then they decided to use only CAGs for small and new cohorts.

Then it turned out the algorithm/ranking approach was flawed and turned out many seemingly unjust results, with some types of setting doing much better than others, SFCs getting results lower than their 3 year average etc

I think it's worsened and people have become angrier at each step.

Also I’m extra worried now seeing as school won’t automatically tell us CAG does that mean they were really harsh with the CAG! More to worry about now....

singinstones, that’s what I mean - I don’t understand why that’s now wholly unacceptable to neutral, for example, when it seems to have been generally accepted before?
It wouldn’t be a compromise now, because it’s what was always on the table.

I emailed the school to ask about the availability of the CAGs and have had a reply to say they will be available in an envelope on request when they go to get their results. They also did this for the A levels.

It's also the way the algorithm is designed to round down rather up which would be the right thing to do in this scenario.

Good news NI has been proactive after the Scotland experience and giving the more realistic CAG straight away instead of the Scotland situation where the end result is schools in better areas get upgraded above CAG, and get the uni places and deprived areas get CAG too late as already irreversibly rejected from uni/college.

We've had an email from school saying CAGs will be available on Thursday but will need to be requested.

That sounds good @mummabear74

@Alsoplayspiccolo from my perspective I (perhaps misread the situ) thought that greater weighting was given to teacher assessment not the algorithm. So in that case it was acceptable.

@Alsoplayspiccolo I think it's because people assumed - rightly or wrongly - that the algorithm would use CAGs as the fundamental decider, with rank order and school performance also considered as a moderating factor. I always knew there would be rank order and school performance as part of the equation, but accepted the need for moderation, and realised that whilst not ideal it made sense for OFQUAL to moderate results to give some meaning to grades. Naively, though, I assumed it would be a bit like the SATs moderation - that schools would make sure they have evidence in case they were challenged about levels by the moderators, and that teacher assessment would be the basis of everything.

It's the ignoring of CAGs and use of rank order and school performance only that is so outrageous.

Like others on here I have no desire for my child to be allocated anything other than what is fair and reasonable for him. And, by the same token, for other DC to be allocated what is fair and reasonable for them.

After a few days of radio silence from school (very unlike them, they are usually not backward at coming forward) we've received a letter about the exams results. After congratulations to Year 13, the letter launches into an attack on the grading process, giving a very clear analysis of its shortcomings and pointing out that neither mocks nor resits are acceptable alternatives.

As I'd expected the school (large, non-leafy comp) has been affected badly - 40% of results are 1 grade down on CAGs, and 7% are 2 grades or more down. One A* student was marked down to a C. Higher performing students most disproportionately affected. The school's results compared to 3 year average have plummeted (so much for standardisation!).

The school has promised to fight for every student to get the individual results they deserve. They've also said that they will use CAGs for sixth form entry (hooray to both of these!).

Appallingly IMO, the headteacher has been trying to contact our local (Conservative, Boris yes-man) MP since Wednesday and he has still not responded - we are the largest school in his constituency.

@Alsoplayspiccolo Re algorithms, I admit I was not following results discussions until last week when it emerged that teacher predicted grades would be downgraded. Then I did a lot of research and found out more about it.
I am not against algorithms per se, but it is 2 weeks until my DS school starts term. The last algorithm was unfair and inaccurate, I worry a change to the algorithm will just be unfair and inaccurate in a different way.
The time for moderation of individual schools and colleges has passed. Some options are just no longer viable now it is the second half of August.
Plus in terms of my own DS, I am not prepared to compromise on a grade downgrade. His school is strict and rigorous, no way would they have given him a higher grade than he would achieve so downgrading him further would not be fair or accurate.

We also had an e-mail this morning saying that school sixth form will use CAGs (not the same letter as Harry, so different school). As I said a couple of days ago, the sixth forms all know that the algorithm has spewed out a lot of rubbish!

Also, a piece on the HEPI website this morning suggesting a slightly different way forward. I still want CAGs, but the idea of making sure that no individual student had more than 3/4 grade drops is a step in the right direction:

There are perhaps some solutions that could mitigate the impending disaster for GCSEs:

**

Set out the appeals process before results publication, acknowledge that there will be individual unfairnesses, and encourage students to appeal, preferably knowing that their changed grades will be quickly processed within a given timescale.

Cap any downgrading at both a subject level and at student level so that no student gets, for example, more than one grade lower than their CAG, and in no more than three or four subjects. (Such a cap on downgrades might be an option for A level students who appeal, although the potential for turmoil in university admissions could make this more problematic.)

Retain all Grade 4 CAGs for English and mathematics – the difference for students between a Grade 3 and a Grade 4 in these keystone qualifications is often life-defining. No-one deserves to have this decision meted out by an algorithm.

www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/08/17/what-next-for-a-levels-and-gcses/

Nothing about using CAGs for our school sixth form so far - they are just saying to get in touch if your results mean you don't meet the requirements and a member of the sixth form team will speak to you. Not massively reassuring it has to be said!

I've just emailed school to ask about when and how they are releasing CAGs, and how they are managing admissions. It's a reasonably selective (state) 6th form, and in normal times, ds would be totally safe. This year? Who knows. Btw, are there any Admaths students around? DS has received his results for this (released a week earlier than GCSEs) and got a D: and a friend has had a U: this in a super-selective class, where they only allow very strong mathematicians (expected to get 8/9s at GCSE),and the class historically have received all A and B grades. They don't do a mock, so I suspect there may be nothing we can do about it (have emailed school to ask) but it's not exactly helping mine or ds' confidence at the moment...