grammar or private school

[user890890340]

Our DS9 is in Year 4 and will be going to Year 5 next month. He's currently is a state primary school, but we're thinking of sending him to a grammar school for secondary or a private school if he manages to get a scholarship and it becomes affordable (we can't really afford the full fees for a private). There are no private/grammar schools in our area so we'll likely have to move.

Any tips/advice from someone who has been in a similar position. What should I do to prepare him for a grammar/private school test especially when we don't know which one he might get into and where we might have to move (we're in London btw). It's all so confusing because for grammar schools you have to be living in the area I think....

Grammar schools have different admission criteria. Some are fully catchment, some are part catchment and some have no catchment at all. So you need to identify the schools you’re interested in and find out.

Not all entrance exams are the same either so you need to look those up for the grammars and indies that you want to target. If you feel out of your depth in terms of preparation, just get a knowledgeable tutor for 1h a week who can prepare your son and guide you on what extra things to do.

If school fees seem hard to afford, you could also consider non-selective state schools. Some are excellent.

It would be helpful to know where you currently live and what the budget is to suggest some areas.

I was in a similar situation months ago. DS did have an offer from a super-selective grammar and a scholarship from a private school and we decided on the private school.

It depends where in London you are and where you don't mind moving to. If you can clarify where you currently live, that would enable me to suggest schools and grammar tests.

I would check the selection criteria for the grammar schools and also past stats to check (our local one had 4000 applications and 4000 people sat the exam for 200 places). Do this before you move. Most favour siblings, looked after children,l (plus kids who pass the exam!£ so check before you make such a big change like moving.

I would love to send my child to a private school but I think we will spend the money on their university / rent or even a deposit on a house. We can't do both. Obviously if you can afford to do both that's great, but for that reason I would always aim to get my kid into a grammar school, by lying for extra tuition in year 6 etc

Good luck with your decision x

*paying for extra tuition, not lying!

The right school for your child and the one they choose.
It doesn't matter if it's state comp, grammar, or private, there are good and bad in all sectors.
It's the fit that's the most important.

I don't think that siblings were part of the criteria for grammar school entrance.

Realistically, you have to work backwards from the school(s) you are interested in. Different schools have different eligibility criteria, different 11+ tests, etc. You could waste a lot of time and money to prepare your DS for one type of entrance exam/11+ only to find that the schools you are looking at do a different type. Same with catchment areas - some schools have tiny catchment areas, others have huge catchment areas spanning 3 counties so you really can't generalise.

Hate to say it, but at 9 years old, it could be a little late to start preparing. 11+ tests are typically done a year in advance, so in September 2020 for September 2021 intake and even if you're looking at him taking the 11+ in September 2021, you've only a year to do the preparation/tutoring etc.

So it depends on the current level of attainment/ability of your son. If he's already working at the highest level in primary school, exceeding expectations, etc., then he may not need too much tutoring, but if he's not at the top of his game, then time may not be on your/his side. Some people only do a few months of tutoring, others can do a couple of years. That also feeds back into the school's entry exams - some are more intense than others.

Another thing to think about is that there are some top performing state schools (grammars and high level comps) who also offer boarding options, so you don't pay for tuition, you only pay for the boarding costs, which can make sending your child to such a school more affordable. Many of those have flexi boarding options, such as only boarding Monday-Thursday nights and returning home for weekends.

Thanks for all your replies. We live in East London (Walthamforest borough). We're happy to move for a good school but moving isn't easy (we'd have to sell our house and buy another or to move into a rental etc) and especially difficult when you don't know in advance which school your kid will get into.

I've been trying to work with him over the lockdown but have only just realised that the tests are quite different depending on what you're aiming for.

As for budget, we can't really afford a private school unless he gets a substantial scholarship, we also have a DS1 who is in child care plus mortgage, bills etc.

We were in a similar position and chose Private on the basis of location and size, however we were able to afford Private

I've been reading up on tutoring on mums net and folks saying it does more harm than good long term. Why? What are people's opinions on that? Since most of the stuff on the 11+ tests hasn't yet been covered in his school, he is going to need focused tutoring for this.

No schools cover the 11+ - they're not allowed to. Your best bet is to move to a grammar school county/area like Kent or Sutton and apply from there

The comments that it does more harm than good don’t make sense. To get into competitive schools, children do need to be bright and well prepared.

How is your non selective catchment as a fall back?

If you wanted to sit the exams first and only move if your child gets in, then I think the Bexley grammars don’t have a catchment. The Sutton ones are part catchment.
I think Kingston and Barnet are catchment. Not sure about Bromley.

I wouldn’t bank on a scholarship + bursary in the independent sector and scholarships alone aren’t a massive discount.

If your non-selective catchment is rubbish, then it might be worth looking at other locations to get into a good back up catchment. Eg Bromley/Bexley way you’d also get closer to Kent so could apply there.
In Sutton, there are 3 grammars for boys and it’s easier to get in if you live in catchment + you get excellent back up options.

What Bad said - round here (SW London) the preparation starts in Y4. Most tutors won’t take any new Y5 students. Some exams are not GL or CEM so technically can’t be prepared for (although officially you can’t prepare for GL and CEM but that doesn’t stop people trying). Reading lots is a must - a vast vocabulary and its nuances is required.

I don’t think Y5 is late at all to start prepping. If the child is clever and on top of the curriculum, then practising exam techniques and filling in any minor gaps can easily be done in a few months or year.

A child can be as bright as they like but if they never laid their eyes on the type if test they’ll be doing they’ll be behind their peers with regard to speed and efficiency. It’s sometimes about how you do it, what to prioritise, what to do first, etc.

Check when you have to move into catchment. Some have a deadline & very strict criteria to make sure you aren't commiting address fraud, for example, you often have to prove you have given up your previous house. For some the cut off will be before they ever sit the test, and then what if they don't get in?

All good points by the way - there is no right answer. But to get a private school scholarship a child needs to be spectacular academically wise. One boy from my DD’s class got i to a selective private and he was clearly gifted.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk

In case you haven’t seen that website,you can go borough by borough to see what’s available. Admissions criteria will be posted on schools’ websites.

"I've been reading up on tutoring on mums net and folks saying it does more harm than good long term. Why?"

Because it could be one or a combination of the following reasons:

1. they cannot for whatever reason(s) do it themselves
2. they want to put you off so their DC stand(s) a better chance of getting into the school
3. they want a "level playing field" for all children - [rubbish because there's no level playing field anywhere on earth]
4. they want to boast how very clever their DC are in getting into good schools without tutoring - [I've my reservations on this]

But I'm on record somewhere on MN saying I tutored my DC the day they were born - and am mightily proud of it. I still "tutor" them today even when they are now fully grown adults.

Heavily tutoring children to pass entrance exams such as the 11+ etc. can do more harm than good because they may not be able to keep up in a highly competitive environment. But, if your son is likely or has a chance of getting an academic scholarship then he may not need tutoring and tutoring can be costly so its better to assess his abilities because it is never good to send a child to a grammar school and watch them struggle.

Where I am, children start tutoring in Year 4 especially because some schools go by score instead of distance, siblings, etc. But it can be really difficult to get into a grammar school even if you pass the exams depending on the school and if goes on distance even the brightest pupils wont get in.

At some grammars, gifted and talented children may also get extra opportunities and most schools will have a policy on their websites. I may be biased as I went to a grammar but I dont think a private education would have made much, if any difference to me. It definitely hasnt held me back.

sorry I was rambling.

Also be aware that scholarships aren't worth very much these days - means tested bursaries may be, if you are eligible (some combine them, so people claim to have 100% scholarships, it's very rarely true).

You effectively have a year to move house into a catchment of a school you would be happy for your son to attend and he would be able to get into. Grammar school competition is fierce and he would have to start prep for it now. As others have pointed out, the prep is more to do with being used to the type of question and exam technique rather than innate ability. As for aiming for a scholarship and bursary, scholarships only go to the very very brightest kids, there are far fewer around than you think and may only be worth about 10%. Means tested bursaries are unlikely to cover the whole of the difference. I admire your aspirations for your son, but you need a back up plan. Long term, it may be best to move to an area with just generally better non selective schools, what if you move house to grammar area, he doesn't get in, what is the alternative in the area then?

What Changemynam18 said

I would just look at the best comprehensive schools in the areas you are interested in and move as close as you can to them. You are potentially risking a lot in moving to a grammar area if he doesn’t pass or relying on getting a fee reduction at private school.

Scholarships are only worth, usually, about 10% of fees. There are some worth more but unless your child is EXCEPTIONAL at something (academics, music, art, sport and drama usually) then you won’t get one. If money is that tight then you may be eligible for a bursary - usually up to 100% of fees - but it is means tested. You would need to speak to individual schools to see about earnings thresholds and valuation of assets.

Don’t ignore comprehensive schools - live close enough and it’s a no stress situation. Finding one with a grammar in the same area is a bonus. Amersham, for example, has a choice of two grammars and a secondary modern (basically like a comprehensive but takes the children who don’t pass the 11+. Amersham School is highly sought after in its own right. Don’t be blinded by thinking grammars and privates are “the best”.