Panic thread about £25k / yr fees

[SleeplessinSWLon]

DC1 moves to secondary school in 4 weeks, with an unexpected place at a top private school but having paid the first term’s fees we fear we’ve made an awful decision based on being swept up in the competitive 11+ culture here and add coronavirus on top we are even more worried as we know next term DC won’t be able to use the school’s full facilities, sports, drama, school trips so I fear its pouring money down the drain this year and possibly always. We stupidly gave up our local state place and now back on the waiting list without a guarantee for September so it’s not a straightforward choice. Is anyone going through similar? Does anyone have experience of paying a term or more in fees? It’s an agonising situation and I think we will have to take the private place whilst we wait for the state and risk paying two term’s fees but maybe we will be reassured £25,000 is worth it, coronavirus or not? DC would be content anywhere really and is hardworking and the state would suit just as well and is closer with more friends and much more space. This feels like a big painful parenting fail, guilty of being sucked up by pride and naivety.

Firstly you can't get your money back for the Autumn term so as you say your dc should attend while you wait for a state school place. The fees seem very high for Year 7 - are you sure all the extras will be charged? Residential trips are currently banned.
You can give provisional notice to leave before the first day of the autumn term and explain that your dc will leave when your state school option becomes available. This is rolling notice so that you never owe more than 1 term's fees if you leave. The school may not agree to this, it's at their discretion.
There is a lot of shuffling between state/grammar/private in SW London in year 7 during September and you won't be the first parent to approach the school in this manner.

My children are both in private schools.
We have an “outstanding” state secondary just up the road - the sort of school parents move to get their children into.
On our local community FB page, there has been a huge outcry that that school offered absolutely no teaching throughout lockdown; it set work, which wasn’t marked, and didn’t check in on pupils at all.

According to the papers, I dependent schools have been inundated by parents desperate to move their children from state schools, because of the lack of teaching during lockdown.

Not all state schools are the same, just as not all independents are not the same.

Our own experience is that the schools my DCs go to both provided excellent online teaching and pastoral care last term, which justified the fees, and both schools are intending to return to as near normal in September as possible.

PP is correct that not all state schools and not all independent schools are the same. My daughter's state secondary (in SW London) did an amazing job during lockdown and have provided clear guidance as to how they envisage all years coming back in Sept. My friend's daughter at a local private school has received minimal communication about Sept and latest info suggested only some years coming back part-time. My suggestion would be to think about what it was you liked about the particular school in the first place. If that still holds true as a good reason for your child to attend, then stick with it (assuming you can afford). If you genuinely feel that it was more that you got caught up on 11+ angst (and I can fully appreciate how easily that can happen) then do as you propose and try to pay fees on rolling basis until a space comes up at your state school.

Thanks for your helpful replies. There’s little difference in coronavirus provisions and neither amazing but both will be ok given the circumstances with limited movement in school, limited contact with other years, no excursions, online home learning.

The £25,000 calculation is more than just fees as in my sleeplessness I have totalled up the extra weeks of holiday activities that come with shorter terms, transport, phone contract/computer (we felt compelled to choose a mobile I wouldn’t have chosen for a child but the school encourage their use). A friend whose kids moved from state to secondary reminded me it’s the hidden extras that add up without realising and made them question the value as a family.

We have little choice but to wait. It is interesting to hear private schools will be used to this, Singing, I am worried about speaking to them and will wait a few weeks hoping for news on the other school place.

OP. It sounds like you have had time on your hands now it's the summer, away from the school gates to think about things.

We made a very similar decision (top independent and outstanding state) a few months back when the fallout from COVID started to hit. Plus, exactly, as you are now, being away from the 11+ chat gave us time to see the 'wood through the trees'. However, we had a state place. Before we decided, we checked the online provision of the state with other parents and it was on par with the local private school ie. lessons all day. We were lucky as one parent had a child in both so was able to give us accurate comparable information.

It sounds like the state secondary online provision is good. Even so, hopefully this situation will last no more than a year so that would become irrelevant anyway. It does sound like your DC will work will in any school, but you just need to deal with what you have in front of you now. Get your DC on the waiting list at the secondary ASAP (although it sounds as if you already have? If so. Which waitlist number are you?). You have nothing to lose.

Your DC will likely start at the private school in September (as others have said, you will have paid for a term in any case), then see what happens. It may be by that time you'll be able to see more clearly how Covid will affect your family situation and you may feel more comfortable with your initial decision. However, if the children go back to school as normal, it will be harder to move your DC once they start and you may have to come to terms with keeping them at the private school. You will find a way, I'm sure, particularly if they are enjoying it (which undoubtedly they will!).

The best case scenario is if a place comes up in the next few weeks at the state school so your DC can start immediately in September, then you can write off the terms fees in your head as at least it's not £150k+. However, this may be unlikely at this stage, particularly in the current climate.

Good luck. Please do PM if you would like to chat further. And please keep us posted as to what happens.

Well first off, you didn't 'stupidly' give up the state place - it was absolutely what you should have done, and you'd have been selfish not to. Whether or not you made the right decision is of course a different question. I think you need to take Covid out of the equation and ask yourself whether you'd still think you made the wrong decision. Nobody knows how much impact Covid will have and for how long - but think how gutted you would feel if you went back to the state option, and by this time next year activities are back to normal and you find yourself really regretting not going with the private school because of what your DC had missed out on.

FWIW we made a similar choice a year ago and we're not regretting it, even though DS has missed a whole term of his first year at school. The lockdown provision has been superb, and there is a sense that the school will continue to provide the best possible all round education it can, because parents simply won't continue paying the fees if it doesn't. But more than that, if DS gets even five years of normal school there, rather than seven, then I would still think it's worth it.

So, it then comes down to - how much better (if at all) is the private option than the state option in normal times, both generally and for your child in particular? Do you really think that you were just sucked in by pride/competitiveness, or were your original reasons for choosing the school valid? How affordable is it for your family? Are there really lots of extras to pay or are you projecting (there are very few extras at some schools, but others have loads).

If you still think that the state is a better bet, then you need to have a realistic picture of the likelihood of getting a place. In our case, for example, it would probably take literally years to get a place at the school we turned down - probably wouldn't happen until 6th form. If your child has a year or more at the private school then it will be very hard to move them (assuming they're happy). But yours might not be so hard to get a place at. How do you rank on their admissions criteria? If you get a place before September then no problem at all. If it's very likely in the next few months then maybe still OK. Do you know what your child's opinion is? I wouldn't be worrying about a term or two of fees - even if you pay a few grand and your child never attends, it's still a drop in the ocean compared with what you would have paid long term.

OP, there is nothing you can say that the admissions team won't have heard before. You would do best to speak to them the day before the start of term, once you get to the second day of the Autumn term you are liable for the Spring term's fees too.

Really helpful, thank you. We are high on the waiting list as we live so close but have been told we’d be more likely to be offered a place later in the term as we’re not at the top so we will need to be honest with the school and DC to manage as they best see fit with new friends until the place comes up. I’d hope the friends would all see it as a chance to get to know each other rather than us turning down a place.

The private school is better academically overall, the state school isn’t selective so has extremely clever kids as well as those needing greater help. My DC’s work doesn’t seem to be particularly affected by who else they’re around in a classroom and learns independently at home too. State doesn’t have the gloss of the private but has other positives such as sport choice, space, greenery, friends, proximity, outstanding Ofsted, state league & results tables etc. It isn’t £25,000 worth of difference for my DC, my insomnia is telling me.

Thank you. We will wait a few weeks, hope for the best and if we are still waiting will manage as openly as possible and see it all as experience for my DC.

Yes, it really does depend on the state school in terms of how likely it will be that there will be a place. The one we accepted, like the previous poster, would be very unlikely to have a place until sixth form. Is it a comprehensive or grammar? Even if a grammar, there is always at least one child that doesn't turn up on the first day. It just depends where your DC is in the waiting list. Do you know that?

It’s a comprehensive, not a grammar. Close to but not at the top which is sensitive because we are above others from DCs primary hoping for places.

Tricky. Good luck. Let us know how it goes

I think that what makes a fantastic independent school worth the money can't actually be measured in £s.
My DS's school has completely changed his outlook on learning. He's had experienced and opportunities he just wouldn't get in our local state, and the pastoral care they offer has been a god-send over the last 5 months for us as a family.
It's definitely not all about exam results and league tables.

Alsoplayspiccolo It depends very much on the state school (and the private school) in question, the child's needs and family circumstances / finances.

OP is being sensible and objective (now she has some distance away from the 11+ madness) and is assessing what's best for her DC and the family. With a self motivated DC who is obviously clever, are the pastoral care and the facilities offered worth £175k (at her calculations of 25k a year), and rising, over 7 years to their family when her DC potentially has the opportunity to go to, what sounds like, a great state school? Obviously only she can decide. It's a shame it's at this late stage but, as others have said, it happens!

Breezebythesea, nowhere have I said that it doesn’t.
As I said in my PP, not all state schools are the same, not all private schools are the same.
My post was in response to the OP saying that she wasn’t sure there was £25k a year’s worth of difference.

Unless you try one school and then change to the other, it’s impossible to say what the difference between them is, and certainly not just by looking at league tables and exam stats.

For us, personally, we feel private school has been worth every penny.

True Alsoplayspiccolo. I have one in each. Different children, choice between different schools

We had a similar quandary before deciding. Place at a great grammar school and several independent offers. At the time we didn’t have the money to be able to afford private secondary unless I went back to work full time. It wasn’t just the fees but the knock on impact on family life (I also have a younger child). We decided that no, the difference wasn’t that great that we could justify the money and compromise on our family life.

Then we had a change in financial circumstances and could afford our preferred independent school. At that point we decided that it was the school for her and so that’s where she is going. I would have been equally happy if she had chosen the grammar though.

I honestly think affordability plays a great part in how comfortable you are in sending your child to private school. If you have to scrimp and save and you have a great state school option, then I would say you don’t get £25k worth of extra each year. You get something, but not enough to throw everything else in your life off kilter.

It’s interesting, coming from a state primary and being new to secondaries, how often pastoral care is referenced as a benefit to private secondary schools and it is certainly a big thing at the school DC is lined up to start at. I know secondary life is a big step up and it must be important as GCSEs approach even for the most level headed children but I wonder how different pastoral care is at private or state for all kids (or kids with particular challenges). Or year 7 where children join knowing no others or come from feeder schools.

I think like with everything depends on the school. Some state schools offer great pastoral care and some privates don't and vice versa.

When people talk about pastoral care they are often thinking about how well or badly a school deals with quite serious issues (bullying, drug use, sexual issues, major behavioural problems etc). As the PP says, there can be big variations in how schools deal with these, and my guess based on anecdote is that private schools are not necessarily any better at this sort of thing. You could argue that they're possibly worse - they probably have less experience of certain kinds of problems (in that they can avoid admitting children with problematic backgrounds in the first place, to some extent) and they have greater powers to expel students in the case of serious transgressions rather than necessarily dealing with the fallout.

But one of the things you are arguably paying for at an independent school is the kind of environment that may help to prevent some of these problems arising in the first place. Things like small form groups so that pastoral tutors have lots of time to give to each student. Smaller teaching groups so that teachers can provide more individual academic support. Lots of attractive outdoor space and comfortable, well-equipped communal areas for kids to hang around in. Low levels of disruptive behaviour in class. Long lunch breaks so that students have a proper break. Lots of extra curricular activities to keep kids occupied during breaks and after school, and help them to make new friends. Good food. I think that all of these things contribute to a school's pastoral care, before you even think about how it deals with 'problems'.

That's true to some extent, but I don't think paying for pastoral care or shiny facilities stops drugs or sex at independent schools. In fact drug use can often be more prolific at private schools where kids have more money.

In the private school, I feel I can phone the school and ask them to sort out any problem my DC may have or ask for extra support if needed (NB. They may not always oblige if they don't agree). I am a customer paying for a service. The parents are involved all the way. I believe at state schools there is less parental involvement and the view is to let the school get on with sorting out any issues.

You get more of the personal touch, definitely, at an independent school. Whether it's worth paying for it again comes down to individual situation and views.

Yes, I agree, I didn't phrase that very well. Of course you do get problems (including sex and drugs problems) at private schools. I guess what I meant is just that some potential difficulties and sources of unhappiness can be avoided (or picked up early) by a pleasant environment and high staff ratios.

Yes, that makes sense. Although I'm not sure my DC would say that their private school has "good food"

I think all our local state schools would win on greenery, space and environment as the private is in the middle of an urban jungle, which bothers me. Bullying, drugs, sex, behavioural problems affect almost every school.

We saved our cash and went outstanding state for years 7 and 8. Nice school, but the indie is far better. All my teens blossomed academically at the indie. Lockdown work was full online school. Wouldn't ever pay for Reception- year8 though unless local provision absolutely dire. Twiddly fancy prep is a waste of money IMO.

Also big advantage, they can stay at their private school until 9pm if they like, so come home fed, work done etc. They finish lessons at 5 so can leave anytime between 5 and 9. Works well for us.