Upcoming girls’ independent SW London schools 11+ exams

[Oceane11plus]

Are there any parents on this board with DDs due to sit independent school exams in January? If so where do you stand in terms of shortlisting schools, revisions etc Are you planning to do any work over the summer?

We are still in the process of fine tuning the list of schools... We will probably end up applying to about 4/5 schools, of which 2 are in the same consortium which means 3/4 exams max.
As far as I am aware, our prep has not recommended any specific revisions for the summer, but I was still planning to make her write some maths, English and VR/NVR past papers, as 2 months without doing anything seems too much so close to the exams. I was thinking of making her do one paper a week in each subject, on top of reading and boosting her vocabulary, with two weeks in August without any paper/formal work.

Any tips on what we should be doing at this stage and over summer holidays, notably from parents with past experience, would be super useful!

Thank you

Hi everyone - have been watching this thread with interest but haven't posted till now, thanks everyone for sharing.

Not sure if this is useful but PH invited DD for an in-person sport assessment 6th Jan then when we went into Tier 3 they wrote back immediately to say it was postponed till end of Jan but that an 'informal' chat will still go ahead on 6th Jan via Zoom. Can't tell if they have already taken into account ISEB results or not but will just go with the flow!

Also wondering about LU criteria - DD didn't get through either which has got us wondering (nervously) about the other schools in ISEB list for which a couple are firmly at the top of our list.

@ProfessorRadcliffeEmerson

Oh, and she did the ISEB at LU during the November lockdown, and there was no suggestion that it couldn't go ahead, so I don't think the January exams will be affected.

@ProfessorRadcliffeEmerson So appreciate you sharing. All really helpful to know. My DD sat on the Dec date and we too, had been doing the Atom tests since October (she is at a state school) although scores were fluctuating and probably not up to the same mark and hovering just under 120 and maths being the weaker but stronger VR and NVR which I know LU weren’t interested in the latter two.

As @noellejoy also says - really hoping the ISEB scorings won’t impact on chances for other schools applied for looking at same results So tough.

Wishing your DD much luck on 5/1 and do keep us posted.

On the point about the Jan exams, from reading the Gov.Uk guidelines, it seems fairly clear from Tier 4 restrictions such educational commitments can continue as normal. Emanuel also have their written exam on 9th and 15th Jan.

I think there is some ongoing discussion about senior schools in Tier 4 possibly not opening in January (already a staggered start) but it will depend on the results of the rapid testing. Primaries will still open so I reckon the tests will still go ahead as they are mostly scheduled for before the senior school kids returning.

Also just to add, we also knew that we probably had very little chance for LU, but as it was ISEB, we figured we may as well try but in my view, guess it really does show they are 100% standing firm and looking at the higher percentile scorers to invite back for interview and not taking into consideration other factors or lockdown learning situation...which is as expected.

DD is at a state school, but we had a tutor (which was a lifesaver during the spring and summer, as her school was useless). Then I had a month's Atom subscription when LU switched to ISEB, and we did find that useful.

I saw this re Latymer Upper: www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61568
(although I think the poster means 130 places, not 130 offers - since every school gives out more offers than actual places)

Sorry to hear from those whose DCs didn't get invited back to interview at LU... I think it's possible that schools will prioritize different elements of the four ISEB assessments, so hopefully it'll work out with another school.

Does anyone who attended the Putney virtual open day remember if they specified that English and Math will be prioritized over VR and NVR - or will they look at the overall score? (although not sure why I'm asking as a bit late now!)

Another observation: that looks like a fairly significant increase in total applications compared to previous years for LU.

Maybe the ISEB effect...?

DS did LU last year- I think about 1400 sat it so possibly a few more this year. I think interviews play a very important part in their process. He was offered a place whereas friends who probably scored higher didn't, but it is a better fit for him that it I think it would have been for his friends. The schools generally know what they're looking for.
Not sure what IESB will do to the process but if there are lots of children not getting offers I suspect there may be a second shuffle down in a couple of months. Even last year I know of children being offered places at highly regarded schools when they weren't even offered WL places originally.
Good luck all!

Is it 5th January for LU interviews? That's super early- it was 1st feb last year!

Thanks @lalaland1999 - some useful insights. I saw that 1,300 sat the exam last year according to this: www.latymer-upper.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/FAQS-Year-7-Entry.pdf

Yes- I think it was actually about 1400 who registered (I remember admissions telling me) but it was a major 'clash' day(!) so probably quite a few didn't sit it in the end- I know a few who didn't. There was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between St Pauls and LU- luckily you could walk across Hammersmith Bridge then!

@lalaland1999 Interviews are only offered to those who have met their scoring criteria following their ISEB. Everything moved early for most Independent 11+ so those that would normally sit exams in January have had to do it in Nov / Dec and many had deadlines to sit the ISEB by mid-Dec.

I do think that many have applied for more schools than they usually would this year because so many opted for the ISEB at last moment but there are also a number of schools who have interviewed all applicants and prior to exams so that they can gain a more holistic view of the child’s abilities and potential rather than just go on scoring which would be considered unfair to those whose schools (mostly state) did not formal / remote learning over Spring and Summer terms. Also why the exam focus was on Yr 5 curriculum and not covering any of the Yr 6 elements which it traditionally would for 11+

This seems a much fairer way then the children sitting exams and then being offered interview dependent on that. However, I do recall LU saying on virtual open day that the numbers of applicants is too high for them to interview everyone.

However, either way one looks at it, state school applicants are still disadvantaged as they would not have had any prep for the exams in the same way as prep schools would still have had their cohorts practising and doing mocks etc.

Also heard about many prep schools with those sitting ISEB at own schools, staggering tests components (Maths / English / VR / NVR) over several days (up to 3 days for some I know of) as allowed by ISEB. Which I think is wholly unfair than state school child whose own school were not able to facilitate the exam. So they had to sit at one of their applied for schools in one sitting with a short break (so up to 3 hrs in one go).

I agree that it all seems unfair but I do think these schools will try and take different circumstances into consideration. If a school like LU traditionally has a 50/50 state/private intake at 11plus and have taken their top scoring candidates this year and realised that 95% are from preps they will make some adjustments I’m sure. It is not in their long term interest to have an unbalanced intake.
All the schools will have analysed the scores I’m sure. I had a good chat with one of the admissions at another school last year and they were totally aware of all the differences in preparation at the schools.

Yes, I did worry about this the first time I went through the process, but having spoken to various registrars and now having been through it with 2 DC already, I believe that children attending a state school are not compared to children at prep schools i.e they are considered two different pools from which to select.

I'd also say that the reason for that is not that one group is better prepared than the other, but that they are prepared differently. So please try not to worry MumsRule20.

My DD plays hockey with children at various schools in SWLondon and some state schools (not ours) had fabulous provision during lockdown, whereas some prep schools did not and had some very disgruntled parents. It seems to have been down to the management at each school, rather than state versus prep in my view.

Not all non-state schools are Prep schools. There are plenty of non selective small indies that nowhere prep the children like those at the selective Preps. I'd say they come off the worst in the ratios of state:private that schools like LU maintain who certainly won't subdivide the privates into Preps/non-selective indies

There's another thread on Secondary Education about missing the 13+ admissions deadline and a poster states that her Prep strategically identifies scholarship potential children and guides them in the right direction. In my experience nothing like this happens at the small non-selectives...and that's not because they don't have children of that calibre there. It's just not their focus

Like my mother used to say to me (a lot) 'Life's not fair'

I am aware there are several state schools that actually spread their ISEB testing across a week - due to resourcing constraints 3 or 4 streams etc.. .. life is not fair.. end of.... @MumsRule20 but you can’t ascribe a blanket prep vs state mindset when all the children have been disadvantaged in one way shape or form through this shambolic 11+ year. This year more than any, you need to have faith the schools you have applied for are a natural good fit for your child in the first instance, .

@EnolanotAlone not a blanket definition at all - more a case of comparison with friends and those I know whose experience has been vastly different than our own this time round. One had hoped there might have been an adjustment in the assessing this year, but I do not see that has been the case with LU. I think they are looking typically for simply high scorers in the ISEB Maths and English and that’s enough for them even in today’s / this past years climate. Yes, life is unfair but this still boils down to super selection based on academic achievements and some who have had an easier ride in terms of preparation than some who haven’t (again comparing real life experiences of those I know personally and my own in both independent and state).

Like I said in earlier post we knew LU was very unlikely for us but my DD chose to try because of certain school aspects and opps that appeal to her. We sure do have others which are a better fit, but saying that in London those choices are rather limited and mostly super selective based on geographical ease and commute for us.

@dinosaurinmybelly thank you for kind reassurance! Funny how experiences do differ and reassuring to know. Our lockdown educational provision was non-existent and left to our own.

But you don't know that these schools (not just LU) are not taking other things into account as well as just the IESB scores. They may well have done but there will be still be 1000 odd children who won't get an interview.

I know it's tough - have been through it more than once- but there are always some children who get 6 offers, some 1, and most somewhere in between. It's not nice if the first feedback you get is a 'rejection' but I'm sure others will be more positive! (At my DCs state primary there was one secondary school nearby that offered earlier than all the others and almost everyone seemed to get an offer so loads of people sat it to get a bit of good news early on in the process!)

@lalaland1999 Haha, that’s fortunate you had a school choice early enough with a “guaranteed offer” as it were! Would def help to ease the way.

We tried for a secondary state music aptitude test carried out in October but again huge competition and so didn’t make the mark. Still holding out for some good news come Jan. Otherwise, we do have a good state back up first choice so all will not be lost.

Other than the ISEB results, I know LU also asked for the last school report (covered until before lockdown in our case) and a reference from head. Ours was very positive.

Fortunately and in recognition of Covid-19 disruption, the other schools we applied except for City of London have interviewed all applicants in advance of exam and requested a head report and statement of educational provision from school during lockdown.

Just have to wait and see how the rest all plays out now and hope for the best.

Happy Christmas Eve everyone!

Perhaps the schools could send us an offer or two for a Christmas present? (I wish!!)

We are slogging through ‘traditional’ past papers so as to be ready for the Emanuel exam in a couple of weeks.. in the back of my mind I keep wondering if it will go ahead as the chances seem to get slimmer every day. (Unlike my good self who is beginning to resemble a Christmas pudding!) Finding it hard to stay motivated when the goal posts keep changing. (Thanks Alleyns) and not overly convinced zoom calls allow kids to show their ‘true’ self in interview or group tasks.

Hey ho.. it’s a distraction from all the other rubbish news. Hope everyone is doing ok. xxx

Yes, Merry Christmas everyone and thank you so much for starting this thread Ocean11plus

It is definitely very difficult to stay motivated this year with so much uncertainty and other more pressing issues. I've had to have a word with myself as I was getting quite wound up, but now feel better having had a dose of perspective.

Hoping 2021 brings us all the outcome we want from this process - our DD's at a school where they will thrive and develop a strong mindset to cope with whatever life throws at them.

I do try to see it from the schools' perspective and it must be particularly difficult this year for the admissions departments. I genuinely believe that some schools consider the experience on the girls themselves very carefully. WHS and PHS have certainly given me that vibe. Others, I agree, don't appear to be placing that so high on their list of priorities.

It would be really helpful if there are any mums of DDs out there who went through this recently who could tell us how their preconceived ideas of the school they selected played out in reality after one / several terms at the school. Could be a welcome distraction before any of us have firm decisions from any school.

@Mynameis2

I wouldn’t worry about coming from a state school as long as your child is bright. In my opinion, the independent senior schools actually like state school candidates as they know they have not been prepped for years for the exams by their schools.

it seems the schools should be looking for kids who want to learn and will will benefit forma private education .. bright kids just ensure good exams stats for the school .. but is the school actually doing their job ? is a school that choose the smartest kids .. and those kids get good results actually a good school .. or really just a child minding agency .. a good school to me is one that takes average kids and makes them much better .. if you have a super bright kid at a state primary school .. why not go to to local comp .. ace the results and get into oxbridge as they prioritise state school kids ?

@blackheathdad. You have a valid point and I think if indie school fees are going to compromise your lifestyle in anyway then absolutely this is the right path to take (always assuming you have a decent state option). I think also, if you have a middling bright child and only uber academic indie options then a good state choice can allow your child to be top set as opposed to bumping along the bottom and this is what we did for our DS who is very happy and getting 8’s/9’s at his good state comp.

HOWEVER.. if you have a perfectionist, competitive DD who needs extra pastoral attention, or a DC who is very into extracurricular activities, one who might flourish more in single sex or one who
gets very agitated by mischievous kids, then maybe (not always, just maybe) an indie bound deliver something more tailored to their needs.. purely a personal view and actually not what this thread is all about. However, I didn’t want your query to go unanswered. State is getting really
squeezed for funds right now so it’s a very individual decision based on your circumstances, your DC and your options.. hope that helps a bit?

Ps.. purely cynically.. some academic indies will of course choose brightest kids as their GCSE / A Level output is their best marketing tool. Not saying I agree with that but it’s definitely happening.. plus they want kids to be fast learners and keep up so they have band width for multiple extracurricular activities which are also good marketing tools.. they are businesses after all..