Upcoming girls’ independent SW London schools 11+ exams

[Oceane11plus]

Are there any parents on this board with DDs due to sit independent school exams in January? If so where do you stand in terms of shortlisting schools, revisions etc Are you planning to do any work over the summer?

We are still in the process of fine tuning the list of schools... We will probably end up applying to about 4/5 schools, of which 2 are in the same consortium which means 3/4 exams max.
As far as I am aware, our prep has not recommended any specific revisions for the summer, but I was still planning to make her write some maths, English and VR/NVR past papers, as 2 months without doing anything seems too much so close to the exams. I was thinking of making her do one paper a week in each subject, on top of reading and boosting her vocabulary, with two weeks in August without any paper/formal work.

Any tips on what we should be doing at this stage and over summer holidays, notably from parents with past experience, would be super useful!

Thank you

We went through this last year so happy to help if I can.

Lots of good advice from everyone so far. Having a ‘stretch’ goal, one (or maybe even two) relatively achievable middle options and a back up option is what is often recommended. You never know what is going to happen on the day of the exam or interviews!

I think our DD didn’t get into her stride with interviews until her last one, so whilst you are doing exam prep, don’t forget interview prep too! Even if you get offers from some of your top choices, some children can be upset that they made it all the way to interview but weren’t offered a place (‘what was it about me they didn’t like, when the liked my friend etc.’!) So be prepared to be super supportive in the inevitable ups and downs...If your school isn’t doing much in the way or interview prep, even having your child talk to one of your adult friends they don’t know well for half an hour about different topics can help them prepare.

The consortium test is a great way of covering a few options without adding extra exams. We found Atom Learning a useful tool for the Consortium as there aren’t past papers, but I noticed the cost has increased this year.

Only some schools have creative writing papers (Latymer Upper from memory) so obviously focus on what is needed for the schools you choose. Schools like LU and SPGS have past papers on their sites.

And you will hear this a lot - try not to get too stressed! I was probably more anxious on the day the offer letters went out than at any other point in my entire life! But if I look at my DD’s current cohort, every child is going to a good school that is actually really suited to that individual child’s personality.

" But if I look at my DD’s current cohort, every child is going to a good school that is actually really suited to that individual child’s personality."

This is a great point to hang on to!
It's the same for our school now leaving and going to Yr 7.
The choice/competition/exams/numbers etc does seem daunting but almost certainly you will get offers and choices that suit DC.
Stay positive and best of luck!

Is anyone doing Jags and Alleyns? I think we will and Sydenham High will be a back up. My daughter is at a state school. We are using bond books (age 10-11). She is getting around 80-90% in most of the papers we do...trying to do one of each paper every week. Is this enough? Any info would be great. Also, any current parents who can let us know what the schools are like? Thanks in advance

@Chocolatecakeandcoffee, in my opinion Bond isn't hard enough and is a different format. Useful for NVR and VR but go up an age. Look at the past papers for Alleyn's, Sevenoaks and Manchester Grammar School. The big mark questions are towards the end of the papers so the child needs to work quickly to get to these.

Chocolate

JAGS and Alleyns are both very well regarded schools but very distinct in their personalities. Both have new heads which may alter their cultures as time passes so its v hard to pin them down.

Your DD statistically stands more of a chance of getting offered JAGS due to all the places going to girls. (Anecdotally it’s been seen as a bit marmite which has also put some parents off, however I think the last Head did a lot to change that.)

JAGS is one of the few schools I know of going ahead with it’s pre-selection morning in the Autumn so it’s the one to familiarise yourself with first. (Obviously things might change!) I was told the format of the pre-selection changed last year but haven’t had a chance to verify that yet due to co-vid.

Streatham and Clapham would be our local back up, but I’d caveat that by saying nothing seems a certainty in recent years!

@Chocolatecakeandcoffee Your DD is getting good grades which is at this stage is encouraging and means she is ready to move on to actual past papers. I agree with PP that Bonds is too easy. Most independent schools (girls, boys...) have past papers on their websites, and you might also be able to find some 11 plus websites which have a list of all past papers available with the links to access them.

@Stircrazyschoolmum When my DD did the Jags exam, the pre assessment consisted of a lesson on a random subject, games/puzzles with a partner and reasoning tests (VR, NVR etc). Do you think the format this year will be different?

From what I've been able to gleam, most schools are still working on what the autumn term will look like for pupils, and they will fit entrance procedures around that.

It's quite possible there will be changes, and they these will not be announced until around the start of term

One piece of advice is to try not to overload your DD with too many exams. 6 really is a lot, and the stronger preps try to keep it down to 3 or 4 (but realise they are often fighting a losing battle against The Fear). Exam/interview admin could be really quite burdensome this year, which to me is another reason to reduce the number of applications you take forward as far as you feel you can.

And look very carefully at what the school run would really be like. Long/awkward journeys, when carrying school bag, games kit, oboe, coffee and phone, might not be a positive part of teen life. If your heart would sink at the journey if you were called in, or even just to get to a parents evening, then don't inflict it on your DC!

newt Thank you so much for your very sensible (but oh so hard to follow) advice (!)
I think the reducing number of ‘easier’ schools increases ‘the fear’. But as another very sensible) PP said, there are lots of good schools and chances are if they don’t get into one then it wasn’t perhaps the best fit.

Oceane your understanding of the JAGS pre-test matches mine (and seemingly the website) I’ve only heard through playground chatter it’s changed and cant imagine it would be too different.. although with co-vid anything could happen.

I have gone through this process 3 times (2DD and one DS) and can I say I also agree that 6 is way too many! Please do try to narrow it down. We did 5 the first time and it was too much. Didn’t help that our favourite school was also the last exam so DD was exhausted and burnt out. We did 4 with DD number two and only 3 with DS last year. We went for one “aspirational school” and one easier option. He ended up in the “middle” school which to be fair is perfect for him! Looking back most of my DC’s friends ended up at the schools that were right for them with about 10 moving after a couple of years (in all honesty most of them were the ones that had been tutored within an inch of their lives and struggled to keep up) So the most “aspirational” school is not always the best fit! Happy to help with any questions as I know how it all feels. My DDs ended up at two of the GDST schools mentioned by a few posters above. Good luck everyone I know it’s easy to say “try not to work the girls too much” as the reality is that I stressed about this process with each of my DC! But it really does all work out in the end...

We went through the process two years ago (dd just finished Y7). I’d agree with not doing too many exams, she did three independent schools plus Tiffin, which was about right (although there was a bad week when several exams / pre-tests all happened within a few days).

For anyone coming from a state primary, I wouldn’t worry too much about keeping up once in a selective school. Dd is on a par with the (majority) prep school kids in everything except maths (and art, oddly), where they’ve covered a lot more ground than her. But in terms of science, languages, English, history etc, it’s not been an issue at all.

That's interesting high ropes but there is such variation in prep schools and the levels they teach - certainly I have seen (boys especially) where their prep school language, sport and music provision especially plays out all the way through and even influences GCSE choice.

I know that hard core preps in West London will ask their 11+ applicants to apply and sit 6 exams. For these it is all about number of offers and results. They will have asked the children that cannot perform to leave by then so probably have a resulting set by Y5 that can cope with the pressure. But you run the risk of burning out your child at the expense of performance and happiness in the next stage. It is a tough choice, so do you go for Kew College where you will be pushed to the limit and prioritise academics and not so much extra curricular or go for Kew Green Prep where children seem happier and part of a community but not too academic and still have some but not all applying successfully to the top schools like SPGS or St Paul’s. We are struggling with the right answer (and sorry to digress!)

I’d agree on sport and music ChristopherTracy. Those are things you definitely need to supplement if you want a scholarship or even to be at the same level as children from preps.

I was just wanting to make the whole thing look a bit less scary from a state primary. Because it is entirely doable.

Don't worry. You all sound like you have good plans for the summer. In my DC's state primary last year we had children going to top schools including: G&L, Latymer Upper, St Paul's, KCS, PHS and WHS, with a handful of scholarships.

There has been great advice from others here so I wont repeat them.

I would also recommend regular work with regular breaks and talk to your child.

Make sure they understand that these tests and exams and the work they have done is not a punishment. Although it feels like a punishment.
And it's really about parents giving them the best opportunities that we can.

Remind them, the outcome of these exams does not define who they are, but is just a snapshot of them, at that moment in time. As long as they maintain a good healthy work ethic, no matter which school they go to, they will thrive.

I think also for parents to take a break and breath !!!

Have experience with some of these schools (DD at Alleyns) so thought would add some thoughts.

6 exams way too many. We did 4 and with hindsight that was overkill - 3 is plenty IMO as long as you include one surefire option?

It is definitely possible to access these exams from a primary school background. Bond papers/ VR/NVR tests are one thing but they do also need to have a look at what they'll be asked to do in the English and maths papers. Get used to writing stories under timed conditions, learning to prioritise the higher score questions in a comprehension, that kind of thing?

All the websites for these schools have past papers on - so plenty of material available. In many cases the maths papers are pretty formulaic (2 questions on fractions, one on pie charts that kind of thing) so it's just useful to review that with your dd and be clear that it is better to skip questions and go back at the end rather than panic.

Interview technique also key later on. when asked what clubs he did after school DS famously said 'airtex model making' and then knew nothing about it - because he'd only just started. The choir/karate/orchestra weren't mentioned....

Sorry for my delayed reply!

So my daughter was at a state school, so no prep at all done by them. She had 1 hour of tutoring for a year beforehand, but only term time. She was always pretty near the top of her class in both maths and English. The tutor initially did a bit of VR and NVR as well, but it was down to my daughter to practise! To be completely honest, she wasn’t actually that bothered about it, annoyingly she’s a child who did quite well without a huge amount of work... BUT then she didn’t get through the first round of WHS, and that I think gave her a bit of a shock...

She then started doing a bit more maths and tried to broaden her vocab for writing. She still didn’t do an awful lot of VR and NVR but I could tell she was putting in a bit more work even if she didn’t admit it!

She loved the interview process and is naturally confident which helped. Honestly, after WHS we really worried we’d set the bar far too high.

In terms of how many to do- you know your child best! We did six and it was absolutely fine. Good luck!

Every child is different but most at my DCs SW London state school did 5 or 6 independent schools and coped fine. It was the parents getting stressed, the children enjoyed the days off school!
Some only did a couple as they had state options they were guaranteed to get and happy with.
It is hard to know what to do for the best as there are always unexpected results. This year we had boys getting into Kings Wimbledon but not Emanuel, girls getting into St Paul's but not Putney High, boys getting into St Pauls but not Latymer or Hampton ,Putney High but not Surbiton High, etc etc.
But I would say they all ended up at schools that seem to suit them and sometimes the perceived hierarchy of schools is outdated and results in a certain type of parent determined to get their DC's into 'top' schools regardless of whether they are right for their child.
I have a DD at WHS and a DS starting at Latymer so happy to offer any advice. Have a bit of a break before the next one!

Just out of interest, for those sitting five or six exams, how many offers do children tend to get?

We moved out of London when the kids were small as I had seen the stress 11+ was causing friends and their children and just couldn’t face it.

If a child is, on average, sitting three and getting two offers, is that not the same as sitting six and getting four offers but with a lot less exams? How many sit six and get no offers?

Here in the Home Counties most children sit just two or three and it feels so less stressful. I guess because there are fewer options it makes deciding which ones to go for an easier task? Or is it really that competitive that you really need to apply to so many SW London schools just to stand a chance? Or is it just the fear?

I am just being nosey about why it feels so stressful in that part of the country.

I've known DC get 10 offers, other none and then everything in between! Some will need bursaries so may sit lots. But mainly comes down to the fear factor!
Part of the 'problem' is that are so many very good schools in London that it can be hard to narrow the choices down. Friends outside London don't tend to have as many to choose from.
Certainly with my DC we completely changed what our favourite schools were through the process due to how the exams went, how welcoming the schools were, the interviews etc, the offer holder days etc. Then the state v private dilemma. The schools we chose in the end were not what I would have anticipated 6 months before.

The stress comes from the high birth rate - it tails off from 2013 onwards

There are still more people in London willing to pay for secondary than there are private places

Unfortunately I do know of children in the last 3 years who sat 4-6 schools (taking the prep's advice) who didn't get any offers

It does also depend on the timing of the exams and offers. We knew dd1 had an offer of a place at Sutton High before Christmas, and that meant we withdrew her from one exam in late autumn, on the basis she already had an offer she liked more.

I’d also agree with what summerfun20 said - you do see some odd results where a child gets an offer from what is seen as a harder to get in to school, but nothing or waitlist from one which is seen as easier. Either because they’re looking for different things, or because the DC had an off day. It’s all very hard to predict.

I think I would have a heart attack if my daughter sat 6 sets of entrance exams and didn’t get an offer.......

I know what you mean about feelings changing throughout the process though. Our favourite school two years ago when we started looking did such a bad job through the admissions process that it put us right off. Even a scholarship offer couldn’t fix things.

I guess I was just wondering if it was a case of trying to ensure a place was secured and therefore a necessity or just a means of narrowing down the field of choices once you know which ones have offered.

Feeling very glad we moved out.