Indie vs “super state”

[Paribus]

Wr are very fortunate in that our DD got 4 offers from indies (FHSS, Queen’s Gate, Queen’s college and G&L) and were trying to pick up the best for her- however today she (out of the blue!!) got an offer from Grey Coat Hospital School as well.
We are truly baffled and don’t know where to start. Our kids have always been privately educated, we are expats so don’t onow an awful lot about state schools here.
What would you do? Independent? “Super state”?? Is GCHS really that great?? Please, please help!! Any advice will be so gratefully received!

😊 I think I’d take some time off to revisit the schools if you can - that might help! Good luck in your decision, it sounds like you are in a luckier place than many and can’t in all likelihood go badly wrong however you swing! One thing I found very helpful at Secondary stage is asking the girls giving us the tour (if you get them!) what they liked most and then least about their school - the answers were pretty honest and illuminating as they were too young to put a front and spin on - the girls at the school youngest DD (YR7) goes too I wanted to adopt, the others I would have passed on!

Thank you 🌺- i know! I always ask tour guides loads of questions and it is amazing what you can learn just by listening carefully to what they have to say (lots ;) ) . Learned a lot about drug situation in one very oversubscribed indie by asking just a few questions- answers are all there, sadly school is not interested in them i guess!

Or want to present an ‘all is well and we have dealt with this’ illusion! DH did tell me off for what he saw as interviewing the kids (interviewing is what I do professionally) but as you say, you get to hear the reality behind the gloss and hype. Kids (bless them!) are so honest or if they are lying, terrible at hiding that. Good luck with your decision making and trust your instincts!

From school funding stats:
The Grey Coat Hospital received £6,317 per pupil for the 2019/20 academic year - the least funding out of all secondary schools in Westminster. How does that compare to the funding per pupil at the other schools you are looking at?

@SJaneS48, i think genuinely having been exposed to private schools with my DCs for the last 7 years, all private schools care for is their league table position and 11+ (13+ or in some cases 7/8+) results. They live and die for them, despite what they tell you in their glossy brochures. Sadly, i am personally very disillusioned with private school landscape in SW London.

@AlissKezamMoivit, oh, that’s interesting! How do they manage to do all the trips they mention on their website on such a tight budget?
Re other schools- they are all independents, so no info re fundung per pupil i’m afraid.

Parents will fund all the cost of the trips (which I assume they would at Indies as well). Parents who want their children to go on a trip but can’t afford it will have a needs assessment and will make up a (usually small & I would imagine particularly so in SW London) proportion of the trip cohort. I think there is a general perception on these pages as many of the threads relate to Indies that there will be few Trips at a State school - we’ve had 2 already (an outward bound induction and a day trip to France) as well as a skiing trip which risk adverse DD had no interest in! I think the same goes for perceptions of the availability & diversity of extra curricular clubs (I realise DDs State school isn’t the norm but there is everything from an Equestrian club, Creative Writing, many specialised Art & Drama & Music & a total of 6 choirs just off the top of my head). State schools are good at making money stretch and hiring enthusiastic staff but parents will fund various non curricular elements.

At GCH they do a language trip in Yr 7.
to either Germany or France depending on which language they are learning. half year do french half do german.
Cost for france was around £400. German I think is a little more.
They mention it at new greys day and then don't actually tell you anything about it until Christmas. Deposit is due by 31st Dec Balance end April.
So if do pick start saving in September for it.
Def take advantage of the uniform sale on new greys day. It will save loads.
think we kitted DD1 out for around £150 vs £350 for bare minimum new.
Watch out on the PE tops. We got a letter sent home at end of yr 7 to say she needed a new top as hers was wrong colour yellow. I refused as we bought it from pta. Said if it was wrong then they should not have been selling it!
No big trips in yr 8.

Thank you @SJaneS48, agree re clubs in stare schools- was very impressed with the choice at each school we visited.
@tiggermummy70, thanks for the tips! Last year’s school trip to Italy for our DD costed over1500 pounds so 400 is much better :).

Dh works with someone who has daughters at GCH. He said there are not as many trips as there used to be due to funding cuts. Just putting that in there!

@Stclair, thank you! Is your husband’s colleague happy wth the school?

Yes, very happy. Properly comprehensive so all abilities. I think a lot of children live south of the river so may be a factor to consider regarding friendship get togethers if you live elsewhere. In saying that we accepted an offer today at an independent which is extremely far from us so should listen to myself!

Thanks, @stclair, really good to know! I wonder if it is ok behaviour wise??

I'd be inclined to accept the GCH place. I've heard so many positive reviews of the school.

If paying for an independent is not difficult, leave GCH for someone else? Just another thought

stclair

I disagree. Independent school are ripping people off nowadays and so if you can find a good state school you should choose it. Instead of feeding the indie rip-off merchants, we should starve the beast.

@stclair, i also disagree. It is not the question of whether paying is difficult or not (we have been privately educating our DC for 7 years now), but where our DD would be happier and where her potential would be met and challenged. This is the whole reason i started this thread.

Independently educated children are entitled to a state school place whenever they want to take one up. Just the same as any other child in the country.

most (not all) independent schools are run on a "not for profit" basis. every penny of fees is spent on the school. obviously having sufficient resources, sensible staff to pupil ratios and a wider range of subjects is going to cost more so obviously school fees are going to be significantly higher than the per-pupil funding that state schools get.

@Liam436 how do you define "ripping people off" given this? I would generally only use that phrase if a business was making massive profits on overcharging for something poor quality. However a not-for-profit organisation by definition charges "cost price"

I would be suspicious of a for-profit private school but some state school academies are also run on a for-profit basis.

@Paribus you can find out each independent school's overall annual income by searching for it on charity commission.gov.uk - then divide that figure by the number of pupils which should be available in the prospectus or school website.

I live very close to Grey Coat Hospital, and see a lot of the girls of all ages on their ways to and from school. They seem consistently well behaved and polite to each other and courteous to those around them, and well presented. As PP have said, it seems to be a good social mix of girls too. The same sadly cannot be said of kids from another school locally, who consistently drop rubbish, vandalise local houses and cars and swear a lot, accompanied by a lot of jostling.

@Tiggermummy70, that's interesting, do you think being in a very large school (180 per year) has made it harder for dd1 to make friends then (or I might have misinterpreted your post, but sounds as though you think 84 may make it easier?). I'd always assumed large makes it easier as there's a bigger 'pool' to find your match - but maybe there's a tipping point after which it's just so big you can't 'find' people?

What would your dd like to do Paribus? One point to consider - is she religious? I don't know how big a part religion plays in GCH life, but for a non-believer that might be an issue. (I realise your family may be as you've got a place, unless it's pure distance/foreign language aptitude, but dc don't always follow on!)

@AlissKezamMoivit, not sure what you mean by “wider range of subjects”, as curriculum is the same, whether it’s private or state school. You might mean the clubs- but the charge for them in private school is separate from school fees and yes, private schools have a larger variety but tbh, that would be the least of my concerns. I want good edication, inspiring teachers and good pastoral care- i can provide karate class/cooking class for my DC outside of the school if needed. Non for profit thing/charity status is done to avoid business rates, and no, not every penny is spent on the pupil- dividing the school income by the number of students is not going to help, as the money goes towards salaries, rent, taxes, water/electricity, etc.

@Solasum, thank you, that's good to know!

@hairquestions2019, we are religious and regular church goers, yes. My DD is very excited about the trips and languages, bless her.

Aliss is right op that some private schools offer a different range of subjects from state schools - for example more modern foreign languages (perhaps not an issue with GCH!), Latin, Ancient Greek, and may do further maths A level which not all state schools do etc.

On the other hand state schools may offer some subjects that not all private schools do.

Basically the subjects offered will vary from school to school, including between private schools - the above are just examples!

Yes, absolutely the subjects do range school to school, in the State sector many have specialisms and offer additional subjects in those areas. Having studied Classical Studies, Latin and Ancient Greek at school myself, unless you want to go into some very specific specialist areas, I do think modern languages (and the average State will offer at least two in Year 7) are far far more useful! I do appreciate that Latin is the root of a number of languages but personally all I can remember is parts of a poem about being a barbarian! Any number of modern languages would have been a heck of a lot more useful!