What do you do if you don't want the school you've been offered ?

[fogginghell]

My head is in a spin.
Our worst fears have been realised and dd has been offered the local comp that has a reputation for bullying and unhappy children leaving mid term.

Please can someone just give an outline of what to do if you're not happy with your choice. I know I can appeal and I've gathered it's a lengthy process. What I need to know is , what should I be doing tomorrow , who should I be calling , what information can/should I be gathering for the appeals process ? I just don't have a clue where to begin, who I can speak to and what information I need to move forward with an appeal.

Also She's been placed on a waiting list for her first choice , can I call the school and ask what position she's in and how fast the waiting list is likely to move ? Can I call the other school and ask to be placed on the waiting list for those too?

It all seems so complicated and painful and apparently only a 25% chance of winning.

Just so gutted for my dd

I am so dreading seeing her little face when I tell her she's got the school of her nightmares.

I just wanted to say thank you to all you lovely lot who have taken the time to reply to my thread. It honestly means a lot.

I've been around since pregnant with my dd -almost 12 years ago now - and there have been so many times where I would be lost without this support.

So a huge and warm thanks to all.

As you were

For schools with waiting lists as they have some space, how do you get on this list? Contact the local authority they are based in?

You should already be on the waiting list for any school that was a higher preference than the school you have been offered but it is worth contacting your LA to make sure as they don't always get it right. Your LA may limit the number of waiting lists you can be on. If you want to be on the waiting list for other schools you apply through your own LA regardless of where the school is located.

Thank you so much for your advice on here. When you say apply through your own LA regardless of where school is located is that through the admissions portal? My LA has said on the email for other schools outside of their LA apply to via their LA? But how is this applying done? Im confused by it....

I truly feel for any parents found in this position. We had the same experience last year. Fortunately we WON our appeal.
It was emotionally draining to say the least but it was worth it.
I lived and breathed the appeal for a solid few months and literally picked apart the schools to find information to support us.
You have to be completely prepared and don't be afraid to show your emotion!
Good luck xx

When you say apply through your own LA regardless of where school is located is that through the admissions portal

This is where things get complicated. If your LA says that you should contact the LA for the school you want. However, you may find that they won't accept an application from you as you don't live in their area so you may have to argue with both LAs until one of them gives in.

@Singlemamatoone & @prh47bridge - just a small (but important point & excuse me for butting in), some counties you will automatically be on the waiting list for higher preference schools But, some you won’t! You do need to check your own County’s policy on this. E.G London it’s automatic, Kent you need to apply. Please no one assume it’s automatic!

Just to demonstrate..

Even where it is supposed to be automatic, the LA may still get it wrong. I would always encourage parents to contact the LA and make sure they are on the right waiting lists.

I heard an appeal when the child had not been put on the waiting list until about 3 weeks after allocation day. LA's mistake. When we asked if she would have been given a place had she been on it earlier the answer was 'Yes'. We allowed the appeal immediately.

Controversially the preferred secondary school near us -which is very hard to get a place at if you live in our village as we are not direct catchment and our village secondary is in special measures so everyone was avoiding - offered places to those on the waiting list who did really well in sats- apparently this happens a lot - schools will cherry pick from the waiting list so if your daughter is really bright that may help. (I'm aware that is probably not official approved practise though !)

Do people really believe stuff like this? How on earth do you think schools get information about random children's SATs results and how do they then suddenly find places for the high achievers in July?

@prh47bridge I had a meeting with our current primary school with regards to school appeal, this was suggested by the school themselves as they picked up on the fact that dd was anxious and upset. The teacher who usually gets involved in helping parents with appeals wrote a set of bullet points that I could centre the appeal around. I asked about a letter from the school to verify the points, but the reply was that the school doesn't really do that as they're not really supposed to help parents with appeals as it's seen as going against the authorities ?? She said if the appeals panel want to verify any of the details, they will call the school in which case dd will receive a glowing report from them.

I am worried about this as every thread I have read on here states that some form of supporting evidence is needed for submission alongside the appeal form. I asked the teacher about this and she was dismissive about this and said to just state the points , and that most appeals she knows of get a place without a hearing ?

I am very confused! If anyone else has any experience of what I've just mentioned please do comment, and your expert guidance would be hugely appreciated @prh47bridge . Thank you x

Argh don't know how all that turned bold! Sorry

Our year 6 teacher was more than happy to type a letter of support for our appeal. She went to great efforts to help us in this way and we decided together what would be written in the letter. She turned it around very quickly and did it within a day or two! It seems the teacher in question for you may be getting confused or just being a little awkward xx

fogging Appeals panel should never contact the school, they are independent of the school and the parents. If they need something clarifying they should ask the clerk who would phone the school.

Hi @jesslou  I thought that perhaps the advice to not provide letters has come from the head... she can be awkward at the best of times  I will try again on Monday with her actual class teacher ... hopefully someone will be brave enough to get me a letter sorted.

@eddiemairswife I think she possibly meant the clerk getting in touch for clarification but I've read that it's the parents responsibility to provide all forms of evidence so I am very confused

fogging dd's SENCO was able to write in support of our appeal. It was short and factual. So they can do it.
I think she's wrong about supporting evidence and hearings not happening unless she only knows of appeals where a clear error has taken place.

From the information you've posted, the teacher at your daughter's current primary school hasn't got a clue about appeals.

There is nothing wrong with a primary school providing evidence for a secondary school appeal. Some won't do so because they feel that, if they support one appeal, they have to support them all. Even if the school does provide evidence, some appeal panels won't give it much weight. But they can provide evidence.

The appeal panel decide the case on the evidence in front of them. They absolutely will not ring the primary school to verify details and nor will the clerk. That isn't how it works.

Appeals getting a place without a hearing simply doesn't happen unless the parent chooses not to attend the hearing, in which case the appeal panel decide based purely on the paperwork. Such appeals are rare and frequently go against the parent.

Given how little this teacher appears to know, I would be suspicious of the bullet points she has given you. They may be right but there is a strong possibility she has missed the point completely. If you want to share her bullet points I'll be happy to comment. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to post them publicly.

@prh47bridge thanks for confirming my suspicions... it's almost as though the school are expecting parents to approach them for help and this strategy has been put into place to get rid of us as quickly as possible. My gut instinct is telling me the head doesn't approve of teachers writing letters for appeal purposes and teachers will be hesitant in providing them.

I am occasionally asked to provide evidence from the school's perspective for appeals. I'm happy to do so but will generally just provide factual information, attendance, effort, levels etc ( which the vast majority of appeals will ignore !) and any information that the parents have raised in support of their appeal that I can verify ( eg if parents claim Fred has a huge talent for rugby which means x school would be best as they are the only local school to play rugby, I would say that Fred plays rugby for the school and it would be a pity if this had to stop) . I don't honestly know how much weight appeals panels place on any information I provide

Fogging have you ever discussed your Ds’s anxiety with your GP? Evidence is often best presented from a health care professional, school psychologist etc.

The best advise I can given you is to skip all rules and email the director of the county council’s children’s services department direct arguing why this placement would be a detriment to your child, use as much sympathy talk as you can. I would have hated it when I worked there as I would have been ordered to sort it and make you a place, but hey I don’t work there anymore

That is not how things work these days. As ShriekingBansheela says, emailing the head of children's services (or anyone else) won't get you anywhere. Indeed, even if an obvious mistake has been made many councils will insist on making the parents go through an appeal, despite the fact that the Appeals Code says they should be admitted without an appeal.

@prh47bridge I have pmed you. Thank you x

As someone who went through mental hell with this process last year, my advice is please do not panic. Lots of people will disagree with me, but when offered a school not on our preference list I immediately refused it. I would have rather home schooled than sent my child there and I am glad I made that decision. The school was a terrible fit for my son. He missed the first preference on the basis of distance only. We appealed with a letter of support from the primary head and parish priest, but failed to get a place. The evening I heard about our failure I emailed two schools we had previously discounted asking if we could go on their waiting list.(completely admit we felt too pressured and rushed to make decisions during the opening evening season. In short we became very fussy!) By the next morning one school had offered us a place and the other put us on their waiting list. Within two weeks we had places offered by good schools. We took the first one that offered as it was closer and my son seemed happy to go as he had 4 other friends going there. He has thrived at this school and has not looked back. He now says if a place came up there is no way he would leave and change to the first preference. He’s happy and thriving at a single sex, sporty school, that stretches him academically. A school that back in September 2019, he wouldn’t even look at.
So in summary I urge you to try and keep a level head. A lot can happen between now and September. I managed to secure places in the end at the very beginning of June, despite leaving us vulnerable refusing the offer of an undesirable school. Don’t do what I did and pin your hopes on an appeal. Our appeal went as well as it could have on the day, even the head who was the presenting officer for her own school said we had a strong case. There will be light at the end of this emotional tunnel, so please stay strong.