What do you do if you don't want the school you've been offered ?

[fogginghell]

My head is in a spin.
Our worst fears have been realised and dd has been offered the local comp that has a reputation for bullying and unhappy children leaving mid term.

Please can someone just give an outline of what to do if you're not happy with your choice. I know I can appeal and I've gathered it's a lengthy process. What I need to know is , what should I be doing tomorrow , who should I be calling , what information can/should I be gathering for the appeals process ? I just don't have a clue where to begin, who I can speak to and what information I need to move forward with an appeal.

Also She's been placed on a waiting list for her first choice , can I call the school and ask what position she's in and how fast the waiting list is likely to move ? Can I call the other school and ask to be placed on the waiting list for those too?

It all seems so complicated and painful and apparently only a 25% chance of winning.

Just so gutted for my dd

I am so dreading seeing her little face when I tell her she's got the school of her nightmares.

It does seem odd. Do they use distance as a tie breaker? If they do, unless your son lived further from your preferred school than all the other children in his class it sounds like a mistake may have been made which would be very strong grounds for appeal. However, I'm guessing this didn't happen this year.

His older sibling is at second choice school already. So I’d say they offloaded him to second choice school because of the sibling link

PRH47bridge is right: it would be against the law to do this. As would any admissions done on staff members ‘having a word’.

Seachart: it sounds as if there were a lot of sibling places allocated at your preferred school, leaving fewer places to be allocated on distance. But if everyone close to you got in you must be high up the waiting list.

It may be worth checking the distance they have judged your house to be, check that it is correct and no mistake has been made, and they should be able to tell you the last distance offered. It may take a few days though.

@Seacharts - just realised I'm talking to you on two threads and we are talking about this year. So you may have a good case for appeal.

I just rang our first choice school, for which we were rejected - I hate making phone calls & it was really no help at all! Admissions lady was very kind & nice, but basically said that until waiting lists come out they don't have any more idea than we do. Warned that as well as potentially moving up on the waiting list he could move down, if other people decide to reject their first choice & this school is next on their list & they have more points. This year they had high demand. But she didn't want to give an opinion either way in case it was wrong & she gave false hope. So is just a wait & see game. Doesn't sound positive or negative. Bloody hate this waiting!

Personally I would appeal on the grounds you have set out above. I found it quite persuasive fwiw. Worth a go. Then you have done all you can

As others have said don’t reject the place you’ve been offered.

Speak to all the schools once the waiting lists have been sorted. Like many others I didn’t get any of our choices and offered the an awful school :(

I contacted all the schools - found out roughly where I was (our second choice school less that 5miles away I was 300 on the list!) my first choice I was 50th.
I went to appeal and did everything by the book didn’t mention why the other school was the wrong choice but why this school offered what my child needed.
From being 50th in the list eventually through movement we got offered a space 2 days before the appeal hearing.
I phoned the school weekly asking where we were in the list - I must have driven them mad- we went up & down on the list which is frustrating! When they called me they were so pleased to tell me :)

Don’t panic, there is time & pick you battles! One thing was I never showed my daughter how upset with the original school being offered - that would be unfair on her.

@MsTSwift I think I will appeal. It Can't get any worse can it ?!

About to go pick up dd ...I've braced myself for a very emotional evening

Don't necessarily reject a school on size. The class sizes are usually still 30 and actually a large school often means more clubs and opportunities to meet like minded friends. My somewhat quirky dd has been able to pick from a much larger pool of people than she would in a smaller school. I am a believer in the possibility of appealing so I still think you should go for it, but you might find it pans out ok anyway.

Appealing can be demanding emotionally but it is a one way bet. If you lose you are in exactly the same position you are now, so you haven't actually lost anything. If you win you have a place at the school you want.

Controversially the preferred secondary school near us -which is very hard to get a place at if you live in our village as we are not direct catchment and our village secondary is in special measures so everyone was avoiding - offered places to those on the waiting list who did really well in sats- apparently this happens a lot - schools will cherry pick from the waiting list so if your daughter is really bright that may help. (I'm aware that is probably not official approved practise though !)

Just to add as well- I would be a bit worried by this new school you like - I think an established school with a sixth form is likely to have really experienced teachers whereas the new school I would be worried about current staff not being as up to date with progression etc as they'll only be teaching a narrow age group so there could be lots of positives about the school you have a place at

offered places to those on the waiting list who did really well in sats- apparently this happens a lot

No that does not happen a lot. Any school that does this is clearly in breach of the Admissions Code and is opening itself up to a shedload of successful appeals. I've come across lots of allegations of schools doing this. Cases of it actually happening are much rarer.

I agree with a PP, put a positive slant on it with your DD rather than making statements you can’t promise such as ‘don’t worry, I’ll get you into XXX comp’
Follow the appeals process according to your KA, the offer should outline this. You deal with the JA admissions team, not individual schools in most cases.
Unfortunately there are far more pupils than school places at the moment, and it’s only going to get worse.

With primary school (so not exactly the same) I started mine at the school and then requested a mid term transfer (which we got after a term)

Unfortunately there are far more pupils than school places at the moment, and it’s only going to get worse

It depends where you are. Using the 2018 figures (the most recent ones available), there are 3.85M secondary school places and less then 3.2M pupils. Of 3,376 secondary schools only 512 were at or over capacity. Every single LA had more places than pupils. Of course, that doesn't mean the places are where they are needed. Kent may have plenty of spare places but that doesn't help parents if all the spare places are in Dover and they need a place in Gravesend.

offered places to those on the waiting list who did really well in sats I don't think they could do that for a waiting list, but have seen it in an appeal where the HT was almost arguing our case for us because our dc had an attribute they valued and to be fair has since represented the school for on a number of occasions. I know that is sort of the point of an appeal at secondary to show that the existing pupils will not be disadvantaged and that our dc was a good fit, but it was a little disconcerting.

OR a bigger busier school will be the making of her - at a small school she can continue being timid and shy and not learn any confidence

apparently this happens a lot - schools will cherry pick from the waiting list so if your daughter is really bright that may help. (I'm aware that is probably not official approved practise though !)

Sounds more like ‘oh yes my child got in as they were cherry picked’ nonsense to me. Rather than a school actually contravening the statutory Admissions Code, surely?

fogginghell

Re waiting lists. I don't know where you live, but in many parts of the country it is fair to say that a lot of places offered today were offered to children who have every intention of taking up places they have been offered at independent schools, they applied to state schools as back up and will not be accepting their offers. As soon as these children's places are freed up then the churn starts, schools with gaps offer places , often ironically to children who technically already have places, if these are accepted then that means another vacancy elsewhere.

Over the next few months there will be enormous changes to acceptances and waiting lists as children move up (and also down it has to be remembered) the lists.

Accept the place because then at least you do have a place. Check that the LA has indeed put you on the waiting lists for the preferred schools on your original list, and also for others you prefer.

Stay positive.

And if your daughter does go to her allocated school remember that in a large school there are more chances of her meeting up with another small, shy child, or children. Not all the other 1899 will be huge, loud and intimidating.and even huge, loud and outwardly intimidating children can actually turn out to be kind and good friends.

confused of England

I'm not sure the admissions person you spoke to has this right. I think if you have been offered your first choice school then you do not automatically get offered your second , or third, choice if you change your mind. I think, and I could be wrong, but if you want a school lower down on the list than a received offer then you have to apply to go on the waiting list for that school and take your chance that a place will come up and that you are on the top of the list.

I think automatic waiting lists only apply if there are schools that you placed in a higher category but were not offered.

Agree with viques. You only go on waiting lists for higher preferences than the school you've been offered. The assumption is that you don't want your lower preferences.

OP, if it helps you feel better while you're compiling your appeal, my DD was a tiny shy thing. She was allocated a secondary school where none of her peers were going. I was very, very nervous. But honestly, the change in her between March and July was immense. Both her primary and new secondary had excellent transition plans. She found the autumn term tricky, but was determined to make the best of it. Her teachers made a point of encouraging the quieter children, and she's been absolutely thriving since January and has made some lovely friends. She's still in touch with her old friends, so says she has the best of both worlds.
Good luck with your appeal. There's usually a lot of movement between now and September so you may get a place through the waiting list.

But try not to feel as though the school she's been allocated is a disaster. It might well turn out to be great for her.

Warned that as well as potentially moving up on the waiting list he could move down, if other people decide to reject their first choice & this school is next on their list & they have more points

I agree with Viques and PRH47bridge. If a person decides they prefer a school lower down the list they will have to join the waiting list like anyone else. They don’t get to pick and choose and horse trade. However it is true that when they join the waiting list they could shoot to the top, if they live right on top of the school, for example. And you can be pushed down the list once the late entries are added if they meet the criteria ahead of you.

Schools can't cherry pick in this process.

They don't know if a child is bright or not.

They also don't know the SATS results.

We had lots of supplementary applications with the wrong school, received after the date, just an empty page sent in, haven't completed the CAF and parents will wonder why they weren't offered a place.

All are evidenced for appeal. All are verified by more than one person.

Admissions lady was very kind & nice, but basically said that until waiting lists come out they don't have any more idea than we do. Warned that as well as potentially moving up on the waiting list he could move down, if other people decide to reject their first choice & this school is next on their list & they have more points.

This sounds like rubbish - maybe you misunderstood?
You can move down the waiting list - but that is because someone moves into area and is closer to the school (or higher because f some other criteria eg. SEN). Or I suppose if someone didn't apply but now asks to go on the waiting list and is higher up the preferences.