d of e expedition

[cola2019]

Not sure if this is the right place to post. My 13 yr old DD is completing her D of E. She is enjoying the volunteering and the physical to a certain degree but is not looking forward to the expedition at all!!! She hates anything outdoorsy but we decided it is a really good award to have and a lot of her friends are doing it (in fact most of the yr 9's are doing it!!) But now she has been offered the opportunity to dance at a dance spectacular with her dance school on the same day as the expedition. She has had to miss the last 2 dance shows due to a holiday and a school trip. This will be as a principal dancer in London. Does anyone know what happens if she doesn't do the expedition?? I think she needs to do it as she has committed and will let her team down but obviously this dance case is a once in a lifetime opportunity!! thanks

If she doesn't do the expedition she will not get the award, she could do it at a later date if the school allow her, possibly by joining next year's group.

If she's doing it through school, do they have an alternative weekend that she can do her assessment expedition? (My DC's school have 2 weekends and will be flexible for those that have arrangements they need to work round if they are informed far enough in advance.)

If not, how many in her group? Can they carry on without her?

If this happened at my DC's school (you missed the assessment) I suspect you would have to do it the following year (with the new year 9s) or, more likely, skip the bronze altogether and move straight onto the silver. But you'll need to check with the school. Our school provide the expedition dates months in advance, purely because they expect students to prioritise them.

It sounds like this dance show has happened more than once, so not really a once in a lifetime thing? I'd say her DofE expedition is more important than a school trip, if missing the show for a trip was a precedent you've already set.

However, if she's not that bothered about doing the award perhaps she should just drop out now. There's nothing to stop her carrying on with volunteering etc independently if she enjoys it.

There is no expiration date for completing all the elements of the award other than her 25th birthday. So as long as she completed her practice and qualifying expeditions before she turns 25 she will receive the award.

Will the remaining team have enough members to continue without her? What was she to be responsible for? There's a minimum group number.

My dd is y10 now, she did her bronze last year. She sounds very similar to your daughter the weather was hideous on her practice expedition and she hated every minute of the day, got lost, fell in mud you name it...
I tried to cheer her up saying it couldn't possibly be that bad on the actual expedition. It was worse. She just isn't outdoorsy at all and hated it.

In all honesty I would ask your daughter which she wants to do. I know d of e is great but not if they absolutely hate it.

AStar is correct, assuming it's the assessed expedition not the practice. If it's the practice, she might be allowed to go along to the assessed and use that one as her practice, then tag along with the year below on their practice expedition next year, and get it completed that way.

If she is going to pull out the d of e leader needs to know asap as they may need to rearrange groups to ensure the minimum size isn't compromised and practicalities like tent sharing still work.

She can't skip to silver if she's already started bronze.

She won’t pass if she doesn’t do the expedition.
If she is dreading the expedition then why on earth do it? “We” decided? So not her?
If the whole thing doesn’t appeal then I wouldn’t be trying to get her to do it.

I'm a huge fan of DofE especially for girls (my DD did the whole set) but from what you've written the dancing may be much more important to her than a bronze expedition. Horses for courses.

And if it's in your thought processes, DofE is pretty much irrelevant to uni applications, and another activity done to a high level will be more impressive than a bronze DofE to employers.

Local councils, scouts etc run expeditions and she could do it with them. Some friends and I went with the council to go on a cheaper trip that didn't have a pervy teacher running it.
But it's her life.

She can't skip to silver if she's already started bronze.

Unless, this has changed very recently, yes, she can. (one of DS's friends did just this). Though I guess that this might be something that is subject to individual centre rules.

Yes it’s weird that you’ve decided that it’s a good award to have when it involves something that she hates and is actively not looking forward to. Yet you are considering dropping something that is also physically active and a much rarer opportunity in favour of it?

Ditch the DofE, focus on the dancing.

See if she can do the expedition part next year if shes only in year 9 there is plenty of time. Although of course this will mean doing it with a group she doesnt know.
The expedition is the main part of D of E really so if she doesnt want to do it then maybe it's just not for her. She could still put the volunteering she has done on her CV/college applications

DoE is only worth doing if your DD is likely to enjoy the Expedition. It sounds as though dancing is far more her thing, so she should choose that. Absolutely no one will ever know or care whether she has any of the DoE certificates.

Thanks for all the replies. Such a shame, she is really enjoying the d of e prep with new friends and groups of people and it is already making a difference to her independence. Within her dancing she is very independent but all all other things she is so adult dependent and d of e would be great for this. She is always willing to try new things and was happy to do it but this was before this dance opportunity came up. I know what I would choose (dance show) but on the other hand if you have committed to something you follow that through out of courtesy. She doesn't want to let her friends or the school down so she wants one of the dates to be changed but that isn't possible. I think she just needs to make the decision of what she wants to do and if she chooses the dance show at least if she pulls out now groups can be re done etc but she is worried the friends in her group will never forgive her!!!

If they're friends worth having they'll understand.

It sounds like she's got a good attitude about everything, yes it is a shame there's a clash.

Nice friends will be happy for her getting the opportunity!

Our council run expeditions to mop up people who couldn't do theirs with their school group. Also if you look on the DofE website you will find others being run if she wants to do it independently. You need to pay, but it gets it done.

It does sound like she would benefit more from the dancing though!

TBH if she was a decent friend I wouldn’t expect her to ditch them for a better offer. Maybe a lesson not to sign up to things you don’t intend to see through.
I hope they don’t take it too badly.

Is it a big deal to drop out?

In DD's year they were told to get into groups of 7, which I think was partly to keep the number of groups down, but I suspect also because it meant the group could still function if someone decided not to take part in the expedition.

I loved d of e because I was and am very outdoorsy. Why would she do this if she's not?

Thanks for replies. Obviously if we knew a dance opportunity was going to come up she wouldn't have committed but her dance shows are November and April so we knew there wouldn't be a clash. This is just an extra opportunity that has been offered but a main part in a London showcase - out of 366 days this year they are both on exactly the same night!! She has to decide by Monday I have pre warned school - she just doesn't want to let her friends down!!

I’m in my fifties but did DofE at school and had a similar dilemma with a clash with an important sport event. I chose to do the sport and then completed my expedition outside of school. Doing the expedition with strangers was actually much better than I expected and in your DD case the bronze expedition is only 2 nights. All my DC have/ or are doing awards up to gold level . My view is that DoE is brilliant for developing life skills but Weather conditions ( my DC have had sub zero temps, heatwaves, and torrential rain) can make it a really miserable experience if you don’t want to be there especially if you’ve missed the chance to do something amazing . In my personal and in my DC experience having someone who doesn’t really want to be there isn’t actually that great for the team spirit either. So my observations are :

• if she wants to complete the award do it in a catch up session, externally which honestly will be fine but don’t miss the dance opportunity - let her make the choice
• she hasn’t lost out because she has enjoyed the participation etc she has done so far. All my DC have continued with their volunteering beyond DofE requirements simply because they enjoy it.
• DofE isn’t necessary for uni personal statement as some schools/ people will tell you. It is however great for personal development .
• she won’t be letting her team down unless they are already a very small group and they go below the minimum number. All expeditions have to be flexible - we had one girl pull out on the morning they were due to set off . This resulted in hasty repacking of all the kit/ food. This was frustrating because whilst it was due to an injury it was one that the girl had had for several months and frankly I think they could have made the decision a little earlier . But the group still “survived” . On one of my DS expeditions the boy he was kit sharing with went home in the middle, again because of an ongoing injury, but the group sort of managed to pull together on it . So they will manage
• the school might themselves do a catch up session because of illness/ injury
• and yes she can go straight to silver - one of my DS did this. But I do think doing bronze is a good thing if you can before tackling silver .

The group has to be a minimum size, and there are always some people who drop out, the organiser might have to move people around a bit. But your dd should choose the dance I think. Fwiw I was proud of my non athletic dd completing the bronze expedition but she has since told me about some moments that were really awful for her! Character building, yes, but also we bonded over her realising she could say no to Silver and I wouldn't be disappointed.
Why not tell the d of e organiser that you just feel like she can't turn it down, but that she will try and complete the expedition part with another group in future (she doesn't have to but this sounds more committed). The only reason I would hesitate is if it leaves her friends in an unviable group of three and causes issues socially. But these things usually work out

Bronze is only one night. It's 2 days with a minimum of 6 hours' walking per day.

When I co-ordinated bronze, we used an outside provider to run the training & expeditions. I publicised the dates in December for May/June and asked parents to indicate which dates they couldn't manage. I worked around those. If something last minute came up (or illness) I could do some swaps or the provider put me in contact with other local coordinators and I was able to slot some students into their expeditions. Can your co-ordinator do that?

D of E specify group sizes as far as I can remember. It's a minimum of 4 and maximum of 7. We worked it out as 4 needing two 2-man tents, 5 is a 2 & 3-man. 6 is 2 x 3-man and 7 is 2x2-man plus a 3-man. I aimed for groups of 7 to allow for drop-outs and illness.