Shouldnt equal education be available to everyone?

[angell84]

I have just returned to the U.K. after a very long period abroad, and I am shocked at the school system in the U.K. I lived in another country where equal education was available to everyone.

Why do we have comprehensive, and independant and fee paying schools in the U.K? Why is better education given to those with money who can afford it? Shouldn't equal education be available to everyone?
The discrimination in education - is shocking in the U.K.

Why is better education given to those with money who can afford it?

It isn’t given to them. It’s sold to them. Just like people with more money buy more expensive clothes, cars, houses and even healthcare.

If you think that’s bad, look at the difference in free education between mainstream and SEND.

Most countries have the option of private education don’t they? It’s not a UK-specific thing.

Which country did you live in?

Everyone in the UK is entitled to education which is free at the point of delivery well, unless you have special needs then it doesn't necessarily happen .
Some people with money choose to spend lots of that money, buying in to Private Education. When you have money, you can choose to spend it on whatever you want.

@BackforGood but it is not about the people with the spending power. It is about a human right that equal education should be available to everyone.

I just saw online that German is getting into trouble over this too

"Germany's private schools are violating the constitution by picking students according to their parents' wealth, a new study has found. The result is increasing social segregation and elitism"

I agree with you in principle but in practice even if everyone went to a comprehensive school, I don't think their education would necessarily be equal.

There are some brilliant comprehensive schools. There are also some dreadful ones. The same applies to state primary schools.

It is about a human right that equal education should be available to everyone.

It is. Every single child in the U.K. has a legal right to an education and the U.K. government provides that in schools for all children. Some parents choose not to take the free space in the free schools- they choose to either educate their DC at home or pay for a place in a private school. The free education is still available to them.

@JuanSheetIsPlenty so what about the poorer people who can't pay for a place in a private school? Why should they have leas options for their children.

Education is such a basic human right.

What is also wrong with the current system in the U.K. Is the snobbery and segregation that last well beyond the school years.

I was at a book club here in the U.K, and a man that was present bragged about what school he went to, and looked down his nose at some of the other people in the group, who went to lesser schools.

I remember looking at him with incredulity, thinking "you are a man in your forties, who cares what school you went to"

so what about the poorer people who can't pay for a place in a private school?
There are a lot of other things they can't pay for either. Like lobster or steak every night, 4/5 far-flung holidays every year, plush cars, fancy houses, you name it.

At least with the current system, every child has the right to an education completely free of charge. The rich may choose to pay for something different, just as they do with everything else they can afford.

What was the health service like in the country you have left, OP? Was it free to all like the NHS is, or do people have to pay for it?

As Juan has explained. The same education is available to everyone (in theory). Some people choose not to use it.

Like free healthcare is available to everyone, and some people choose not to use that.

What I don’t agree with is selective state schools!

so what about the poorer people who can't pay for a place in a private school?

there is already an education available to them as it is to all others. The state education system is the equal education. You are confused in thinking a private education is what should be provided for all. That’s simply not possible. How would you get that to work? Would you pay for all children to receive a private education? If not you then who?

Education is such a basic human right.

Yes and one that is granted to all children in the U.K. (I agree there are issues with SEN provision)

I was at a book club here in the U.K, and a man that was present bragged about what school he went to, and looked down his nose at some of the other people in the group, who went to lesser schools.

One whole man? Wow.

I think by 'UK system' you are referring to England, as it's not one system for all countries in the UK.

Yes the class system is somewhat entertwined with education, but I believe its primarily based on which university you studied at. In England University is not free so will never be equal.

But you could equally say the same for childcare. It's not fair that some people can fund full-time childcare and others cannot. However, would you suggest the public purse offers everyone with young children the money to fund a nanny? Maybe we could also fund extensions to homes to enable housing au pairs? By your logic why is right that only some can afford them?

@dustibooks

Lobster is not a human right, Education is a human right.

@JuanSheetIsPlenty I don't think that everyone should go to private school. I think that private schools should be totally abolished, and that children also should not take exams to get into different secondary schools.

The entire system should be equalised.

Not all private schools are better than state schools.

The theoretically equal education is the state provision. It will never be as good as the private alternatives as it has to cater to everyone including those with behaviour problems and Special Needs where as private schools can decide what criteria to use to pick students.

State schools are not all equal either

I would hazard a guess that your country is less multicultural and that they have less income inequality compared to England. I'd also hazard a guess that state education in your country is better funded and that there aren't teacher shortages like in England.

Do you not think that there is at least a case for reform?

Why keep doing, a very old system, just because it has been done that way before?

Why not look for room for improvements?

The basic human right of an education is being provided to all though, just some people choose to pay for a private education. Let's say we scrapped all private schools, would you also then oppose to people who pay for private tutors for their children? It's basically the same principle, some people can afford to pay for extra tutoring outside of the free education, whereas others can't afford that extra luxury.

@Summerisdone the argument is that

A basic human right is - equal education for all.

Here, the poor are being discriminated against

You are completely right. Sadly, the world isn't anywhere near completely right. Money will always get what money wants.

I think that private schools should be totally abolished, and that children also should not take exams to get into different secondary schools.

So you believe there should be absolutely zero choice of education for anyone? Everyone must attend school and must be taught only what the government allows to be taught? No private tutors etc. That’s a pretty scary thought tbh.

Here, the poor are being discriminated against

Explain that please. What rights are the poor being denied?

But it's never a case of one size fits all. Some children excel in sciences, arts, sports, some need additional support with basic numeracy and literacy. Schools offer different sets based on ability so in theory children aren't 'set up to fail'. There's no point in children who benefit from coursework that's designed to help them achieve a lower grade, so they at least achieve a grade, being placed in a 'top set' where they are placed at a natural disadvantage where they can't grasp the work.