Is there still a significant different in pupil behaviour and ambition between state and private school?

[bws83]

I have a son in Year 7 at the moment at a private school, one of the key reasons for choosing the school other than the 96% pass rate and small class sizes was behaviour and discipline, we've found that children are very motived to be the best in class with regards their work, but most important bullying does not seem to exist, all children are well behaved and some even opt for using break times to do homework by their own choice. My experience in state school back in the 90s was a high school with a 30% pass rate of 5 GCSE's A-C, and regular fights between pupils and teachers. It was a very disruptive environment and quite intimidating at the time time to want to do well. I just wondered if its the same today or if things have changed.

@BarbarAnna read it again, I didn’t say that I didn’t understand why people want to be happy, I said that I didn’t understand why they think it’s paramount. I.e. why they think their own happiness is important, why they prioritise it’s over more meaningful things etc. For good people life isn’t about wants, wants are selfish and they shouldn’t even come into the equation. Inevitably we are all weak and make bad decisions in the pursuit of something we want but living like that all the time is no life at all. Hedonism only suits teenagers.

The specialist school is presumably for music or ballet. That's a one off situation. Many of those children won't have particularly successful careers, but it's a vocation.

My children all went to grammar state schools and I would definitely rate them over private school. They were academically challenged and all went to decent universities and did not struggle at university. Private schools do not make you intelligent!!

" lofty career expectations drummed into them from an early age".

Ok well, if parents aren't going to try and guide their kids, then who is?
Teachers cannot do it all, can they?

If it hadn't watched my parents hard work ethic over the years and taken their lead where would I have been? Back the late 80's there was no career guidance.

And even with DS. He needed a bit of 1-1 in the beginning of primary school. I said to the senco and other involved teachers, " oh this is brilliant. We can really help him reach his potential."
What was their answer? " Oh no. He'll reach his own potential".

So even 40 years later I am still inclined to encourage my child to

find his niche and reach his potential.

And of the girls in my old school with lofty career expectations? Most are housewives with fancy degrees they have never used.

I don't like generalisations either. Some state schools are great. Some aren't. Some independent schools are great. Some aren't.

We didn't have the option of a good local state school, so went down the independent route. We were lucky to have that option but I'd rather have had a good school locally.

I agree with Grandmi that there are some very good grammar schools around but most of the country doesn't have that option!

I have one dc at state secondary and one at private primary, in very middle/upper class area in London, both hugely over-subscribed and academically excellent. My impression is if you're academically motivated and from a middle class family background you'll be fine at either.

Behaviour is different as private wont tolerate bad behaviour and would kick pupils out if so.

Outstanding teachers at both schools, but at state school the teachers have a HUGE amount more to deal with. More exposure to 'unsavoury' stuff at state (but then maybe that's cos my experience of state is at secondary as opposed to lovely sheltered primary bubble). The social side is much more diverse at state, obviously. State primary was absolutely lovely.

Bullying def seems worse at state school ime. But then my ds at state secondary has additional needs so is rather vulnerable. His school try their best and have zero tolerance, but the intake is very diverse socially and there's not enough funding or specialist training.

The government’s web site uses the GCSE 4-9 grades for comparison - well the one I looked at for my LAs stats. This is because most FE courses consider a 4 is the grade required for English and Maths.

Back in the 80s my LA had a fully functioning Careers Service with qualified and well paid careers officers! I know because they were part of my office structure at the LA! As for now? Nowhere near the professionalism. It’s a shadow of what it was for most DC. That’s why parents are so heavily invested!

Ignore my first para. !!! Just had another look - it’s 5-9. That makes my LA a top performer but I expected that. Local secondary modern is 70% 5-9 including maths and English.

I don't think you can generalise.

My kids are at a great state school, regularly tops the league tables, sends students on to Oxbridge. No major issues with behaviour and if there is low level disruption it's promptly dealt with.

But not all state schools are equal. Not all private schools are equal either.

It depends in the school, both ways.

I have seen my kids go through 2 London comprehensives, gain excellent results, in schools with strong policies for preventing/ managing bullying. The kids of all abilities do well in both schools.

There has been bad behaviour and fights in the playground, but if you are not involved, you are not involved.

Setting / streaming was well managed, kids learning and achieving at the right pace for them, excellent extra-curricular opportunities in music, dance, drama, debating, maths.

I went to private school: the bullying was intense but insidious and cleverly hidden. Snobbery rife an though I achieved well I don’t think the teaching was any better than in my DC’s schools.

@jojo: there are I'm sure a lot of schools in Surrey with pass rates of 88% at GCSE. But the results won't feature in the league tables because they are private. At my children's old school last year 88% of GCSEs were awarded a grade 8 or 9.

I'd be extremely impressed at any secondary modern getting 70% grades 5-9. @BubblesBuddy: where is that?

@citychick

I think we're agreeing really, even if it doesn't seem that way.

The kind of support you're offering your son is exactly the kind of parental involvement that makes a positive difference in the long term. Helping him overcome difficulties and finding his niche.

However, telling a child they will become a doctor, dentist, lawyer or engineer regardless of whether they want to or not is not helpful. Often parents live vicariously through their children, put subtle and not so subtle pressure on them, and wear their achievements as if they were their own.

The most unhappy children I've known have this kind of expectation and pressure, and the most unhappy adults I know tend to be those forced down career pathways like medicine and law due to parental expectation.