Is there still a significant different in pupil behaviour and ambition between state and private school?

[bws83]

I have a son in Year 7 at the moment at a private school, one of the key reasons for choosing the school other than the 96% pass rate and small class sizes was behaviour and discipline, we've found that children are very motived to be the best in class with regards their work, but most important bullying does not seem to exist, all children are well behaved and some even opt for using break times to do homework by their own choice. My experience in state school back in the 90s was a high school with a 30% pass rate of 5 GCSE's A-C, and regular fights between pupils and teachers. It was a very disruptive environment and quite intimidating at the time time to want to do well. I just wondered if its the same today or if things have changed.

At our state comprehensive behaviour seems to be good - I've never heard any stories about a lesson being disrupted by bad behaviour. There are quite a lot of clubs the kids can join. The teaching is largely ok, as far as I can tell. It's in a largely middle class area. Unfortunately, there is no setting, which means that children who find a subject really difficult are in the same class as children who find it easy. I don't like that approach. There's also not a lot of communication with parents.
A good thing about state schools is that your child has a right to be there. Private schools are run as businesses.

I do think when quoting 'pass rates' it is REALLY important to state whether it is 4-9 or 5-9 - because those are so different.

Nationally, around 70% of GCSEs were awarded 4s and above.

I've been to both state and private schools. The private school was pretty dire tbh, behaviourally and with academic achievement. Excellent for sport however.

Our local comp achieves significantly better results than the local private school.

Needless to say my own DC go to state school and will continue to do so.

It's very school and area dependent.

I also think when quoting pass rates to be clear whether the 'comp' is really a comp (i.e. in a non selective area) or actually has an intake more akin to a secondary modern (i.e. grammar schools which take the top 25% away).

Equally when quoting results for private schools it is worth knowing whether the school is genuinely selective by academic attainment (ie has a large number of applicants who don't pass the entrance exam), or simply by the ability to pay.

I went to a private school and work in a state secondary

To me the big difference is the amount of encouragement and pushing and basic giving a crap the parents give. Which leads to students excelling and achieving

I mean don't get me wrong of course there are parents who give a crap and push and encourage in a secondary school and vice versa at the private school. Especially in top sets.
When you're spending thousands on your child's education you are more invested in their education. Both financially and with your heart.
And with that in mind, to be blunt it's cold hard cash. Parents and kids as an extension can afford experiences which are then translated into attainment. Like tutors and educational trips in the holidays.

And when your parents put in that much effort then it's only natural that the kids do to. Which leads to the behaviour aspect as they have more to prove and don't want to let their parents down

Yes I realise that you get great hardworking kids at the secondary and there was some awful behaviour at the private. And there's oxbridge kids from the secondary and kids who got a U in the private . And what I've just made a lot of sweeping statements.

Where on earth are you getting your stats from, Oblomov?

Even your figure of the number of GCSE students per annum is well off... 4.1 million kids in England, NI and Wales in each year group???? Try 700,000! Over 5 times fewer

From my own experience, and only my own, most definitely.
For us it is worlds apart from our local state schools.
Mine is a boarder though in a specialist school, they are all career focussed at a very young age, some as young as 8.
I hear the 16 year old girls current conversations include not letting a man and children stand in the way of their careers.

they are all career focussed at a very young age, some as young as 8.

And this is a good thing?

Dangling.
I only looked it up.

I work in an HMC minor public school. The kids behave like hooligans. My point is that it all depends on the individual school, not the sector.

When you’re spending thousands on your child’s education, you are more invested in their education
That is by no means a universal truth.

When I was at private school there was a small amount of disruption. Talking to DH (quite good state school), I think he had more disruption - but I don’t think it’s a huge surprise as they had bigger classes. I think DH liked his school years but didn’t feel v stretched. I enjoyed my time.

Both of us are nerdy, so disruption was irritating. Also a culture that being studious was uncool at both our schools - at least I was on a couple of sports teams...

Schools private and state are so variable and also different children suit different places. I do worry that in general the level of discipline over here is not very high though.

Oblomov - here's a screenshot from the BBC... Dfe stats also available. That Schools Week article is really badly written... The 4.1 million figure refers to total entries not students (and it actually 4.5 million according to other sources).

Without being rude - do you think there are 300-350 million people in the UK? That would be the extrapolated population figure from your stat.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england

According to the above, just shy of 543k pupils sat GCSEs in state schools in 2019.

Oblomov20 I think we are the same state school in town of W in Surrey? There's no doubt it is a great school, both of our boys did really well from it and I still feel when I see the students from there around town that there seems to be a greater number of them looking smart and with a sense of purpose then from some of the other local schools. I do take issue with your hundreds of students getting all 9s though! I think the confusion between your pass rate stats and JoJoSM2s is that you are looking at the pass rate for grade 4 and above which is about 92-93% at the school whereas the link looks at only grade 5 and above for English and Maths which is about 80%. Those figures from 2019 also look like a drop on previous years, if I cared enough I would look up some previous year comparisons and also look at other schools for 2019 as I suspect others will have similarly dropped but I'm afraid I don't think I care enough to do so!

Agree with @Grumpyoldpersonwithcats career focussed at age 8 is surely not good!

At specialist schools that are training children towards a specific career - e.g music or dance - then being career focused at point of entry, often primary age, is 'ordinary', otherwise they wouldn't be at that type of school.

That type of school will always be for a small minority of very particular children.

Disruption isn’t necessarily a bad thing or an indicator of low attainment though. I was disruptive at school, so we’re a lot of people I know. It’s just a question of character. We were young and needed to learn when and how to rebel and against what. That’s exactly what our schools taught us though. We were taught to rebel in productive ways, good rebellion, intellectual rebellion, rebellion against arbitrary authority, rebellion against the get good grades, go to university, become a corporate slave still being paid by somebody else at age 50 mentality etc was humoured. Rebellion against good in manners, kindness or hard work was not. The measure of a good school isn’t grades, or career paths, it’s attainment 40 years after pupils have left. Just look at a list of notable alumni and you’ll be able to tell whether a school has been successful in truly educating and forming its pupils rather than merely prepping them for exams. It’s not about how you learn but what you learn. If you learn to be like everybody else then you haven’t learned anything at all.

JoJo - plus the Welsh and NI students, plus the English private school students makes it up to the 700,000 mark.

Sorry for massive derail - bit of a bugbear of mine at the moment... People quoting absolutely crap statistics without any critical engagement as to whether it's possible or likely, let alone true.

@BarbarAnna no, read it again, I struggle to understand why they think it’s important. Everyone has a selfish desire to be happy, but selfish people don’t achieve much unless they’re pushed into it. There are two ways that people serve humanity, one is by putting a greater purpose above their own happiness and the second is by being thoroughly miserable and pushing through it by sheer determination to do something worthwhile even knowing that they’ll never be happy people. People that live lives like that may not be happy but they are fulfilled. It’s easy to be happy, all you need is enough cash to get by, good health, some people that you love that love you back and a bit of self esteem. But only a simpleton would be fulfilled living that way. That’s why so many people with seemingly lovely lives have mental health problems. Don’t get me wrong I sometimes deeply envy people who can go to a responsibility free job, come home, look forward to getting drunk on the weekend etc but I couldn’t live like that. I’ve spent my entire mature life fighting against mediocrity, I couldn’t imagine accepting it. I really struggle to understand how other people do it. Maybe they just haven’t been exposed to the world I’ve seen or maybe they lie to themselves, I don’t know and I don’t understand.

'they are all career focussed at a very young age, some as young as 8.
I hear the 16 year old girls current conversations include not letting a man and children stand in the way of their careers.'

Interesting. I'd await the outcomes of those young people when they grow up, mature and get into the big wild world. You may find that those lofty career aspirations have been drummed into them from an early age and they rebel. Implied expectation is a powerful and damaging thing.

Once, when discussing options with one of my children, he said that he was the ONLY pupil in his form and amongst his wider friendship group who had total control over his exam choices. This was at a private school where parents wanted their money's worth and there was much more importance placed upon careers in law, medicine, vet med., economics, pure sciences and engineering. It is things like this that are contributing to sky rocketing mental health issues in young people.

@Reginabambina am lost. What post are you telling me ‘no, read it again’ about?