What does 3 and 4 mean in the old letter gcse's?

[elliejjtiny]

I know 9 is the top grade and 1 is the bottom. But not sure what number is equivalent to the old C grade and what 3 and 4 would be in the old system.

@TeenPlusTwenties when I write a comment I dont think of every single edge case of people who could take offence or be a reasonable exception to what I say cause I can not think infinitely fast and list all possibilities of people doing GCSEs but I was really bad at GCSE english and was working at a un-graded for 4 years then in the last 2 months I pulled my grade up to a 6, I have always been bad at english cause I find it really hard cause I am dyslexic yet I can manage to get a B equivalent, when I say that 4s aren't an achievement i mean for people in general, you have to do some serious mental gymnastics to think I mean your specific case, I know lots of people who got 4s at GCSE and all bar 1 of them could have done better if they actually worked in class and did homework when they were set it also it's not really an achievement cause arround 70% of people get a 4 or above so it's not really anything special for people in general

No, still not good enough. My DD is not so unique. Amongst my DD's friends are a number of 'hard working but not academic' children for whom 4 will be a good achievement.

It might not be 'special for people in general' but to come onto a Secondary thread and say that 4's aren't an achievement is not on.

Every child has their own specific achievements. You might as well come on and say 8s aren't an achievement. After all, some kids who get 8s could have got 9s if they worked harder.

GCSEs are graded on a curve. About 1/3 will fail their English and about 1/3 will fail their maths. Some who get 4s will have done so out of laziness. Others will have sweated blood to get there.

Yy what Teen said. My ds1 got two grade C and three grade D and I was delighted, I know how hard he worked. I have taught plenty of children for whom a clutch of 4s was/would have been a real achievement.

A 4 is a massive achievement for some children. It is known as a standard pass in education, not a weak pass.

Give some of these children the credit they deserve.

I know MN is a melting pot of genius children but in the real word a 4 is a pass. Allow those children the credit they deserve without the need to pull the. Down please!

Even for the average child a 4 is a standard pass, not a weak pass.

Maybe try to look at the way you use language and see how much more pleasant standard sounds to weak. It's a simple change and makes a huge difference for some children to hear.

I think english when I sat it, not sure about now, was testing a very high level of writing and understanding. It was not a functional subject and was really something that bright kids in all other subjects could struggle with, maybe by not being imaginative or being too literal.
I don't think my English ability was that low/bad and yet I achieved a C in late 90s.
I think this sort of course would have been fine for those doing Alevel etc but as a representation of basic literacy it was clearly flawed.
Employers won't be that interested in if you can write a beautiful story so much as communicate clearly and effectively. But the GCSE giving very little weight to these things, which could more easily be learned than an imagination created.
It is a pity that we leave 1/3 kids without a Maths pass and 1/3 not passing English.
I'm sure there are people with As or Bs and Cs who an completely incomprehensible who don't know you/you're/your, where/were etc. Hopefully the new curriculum may help with this, as they should know a lot of this from KS2 SATs. The numbers who don't understand even too/to or no/know is currently quite a few which is surprising considering it would be covered even from very young. Possibly just something you either absorb from reading or you don't.

It's quite possible I tend to go off on a tangent.

I got Bs in my Alevel subjects which led to only CDD so can't imagine a C doing well. However possibly it can be teacher, topics, grammar and essay writing that are all different and make a difference, plus things like science go to more purely maths from being a bit wordy. Biology a bit more essay based. Languages more essay and grammar.
I dont think they should be using GCSE type grades until GCSE years.

Agree with Teen. 4 is a standard pass and a fantastic achievement for many children. I think it's a shame you can't distinguish between the "worked their socks off and got a 4" type children and the "was actually capable of getting 9s but did no work at all and still got a 4" type children.

I've stepped away from the GCSE support thread because I'm getting so disheartened by the number of posters who are despairing because their DC are "only" getting 6s and 7s. Yes, I understand that this might be below what their DC are capable of, but it's still a fantastic achievement.
I think some people are in a bubble where they have lost track of what is "normal".

Red The year my DD1 did GCSEs there were actually 2 threads running, the GCSEs thread and the 'My child tries hard but still struggles' thread.

I think on the whole though this year's thread (which I am monitoring for tips for next year) is being pretty good at acknowledging that 4s can be a massive achievement for some whilst still helping the parents of lazy kids who might still end up with 6s.

On the whole though, often people state grades whereas they could say 'mocks came in 2 grade under final predictions' rather than saying 'they got 6s and they're predicted 8s'. Which is why I do list DD's grades sometimes, as it shows you can still be proud of 4s.

too many 'on the whole though's

when I say that 4s aren't an achievement i mean for people in general

Yep, that's not making it sound any better.

Mumsnet is the worst place in the world to come if you have a child, particularly one with no SEN, who might not get at least a 7 in every subject at GCSE.

The worst posters are the ones that talk terribly reasonably about unis rejecting people with 6s, despite the unis own websites saying they require a 6 in maths for example. They will make you think that they are absolutely privy to secret information that only the elite know, that RG unis will only offer to students with 8s and 9s. If you point out that your dc got a few 6s and still got an offer, the next comments will be about how they will not do well at A level or uni and maybe they should consider the magical MN higher level apprenticeship.

MN education boards definitely can be a bubble, but they can also be an excellent resource of information/advice if you can pick through it.

Without this board I wouldn't have known DD1 could get extra time, and without that she wouldn't have passed her English Language.

@Trewser I am a recognised disadvantaged student and even I managed to get 8s and 9s in my GCSEs, given that i am literally disadvantaged and am recognised as a slow learner it's crazy that i got such good grades, but it's not really cause as someone who left school not that long ago I can tell you that kids dont listen in class, almost everyone didnt want to be there and didnt do homework or work in class and they failed, everyone that actually did as they were told in class passed at a 6 or more, my point is entirely valid a 4 is nothing special cause it is the most common grade and is easy to get, unless someone is disadvantaged it's not a good accomplishment.

It might not be 'special' but that doesn't matter in the slightest. It's a tool to get you to the next stage. A 4 means you have maths or English gcse.

Shmarv So you left school either in 2019 or 2018? I am now politely suggesting you go away and get some decent life experience before making any further statements on this.
There are hundreds of students up and down the country working their socks off to get passes at GCSE. You spouting it's 'not a good achievement' is just plain rude.

'not a good accomplishment'

I am a recognised disadvantaged student and even I managed to get 8s and 9s in my GCSEs,

With respect at 16-18 years old, assuming you took GCSEs for the first time in the last year or two, you possibly have a narrow view on education and children in general. My daughter is a similar age and I would say the same, despite her doing a great deal of work experience in a range of schools and a huge interest one education, so I'm not being patronising or anything with that comment.

Anyone getting 8s and 9s are working at an extremely high level and possibly don't really understand what it's like to be a student working very hard to gain a grade 4 or 5.

I also suggest maybe learning some tact and empathy for others might benefit, especially when talking to parents of children who may find getting a grade below 8 or 9 as being a huge achievement

I’ve got a borderline class this year, some of them will get 3s and some will get 4s. I will agonise over every 3 and celebrate every 4 when the time comes. Last year I had top set who got 8s and 9s, and there are definitely kids in my class this year who are working harder for their (hopeful) 4 than some did for their 9 last year.

My class this year will struggle to achieve twos.

One of the best results I ever got and it was a decade ago now, was a statemented boy who got a G when we thought he would fail. I’ve never forgotten.

If it's any help the old CSE grade 1 was supposedly equivalent to the basic O level pass, which predated GCSEs.

This thread is a great example of how students can get all 8s or 9s and yet still not be very intelligent.

To be fair to Shmarv, she is a young person (17?) and probably just commenting on her own experience with her own peers - ie. this ones that messed about in her particular class were the ones who got 4s or lower.

I have DC at both ends of the spectrum. DS got all grade 9s this summer just gone, but he’s in a school where something like 65% got 9s in English and in some subjects the percentage was higher - eg for History, I think about 75% of them got 9s.

I have DD now in another school in Year 10 who is moderately dyslexic and if she gets 4s in the academic subjects, I will be more proud of her than DS tbh. I think she could get the top grades in music and art though.

We live in SW London where everything is very hyped. The average is skewed; schools are invariably “super selective” and it most definitely is a bubble, so an “average” child can feel very marginalised. I had thought 4s and 5s would mean DD was probably not going to be suited to the A-level route, but maybe I’m wrong here? What do children do with 4s and 5s in general? Is it A-levels or Btecs? I did look at Btecs, but the options seem quite limited. She is very artistic, so I was thinking something along these lines might suit. Any ideas please? (sorry don’t mean to hijack the thread)!

@Trewser oof, I am intelligent but unlike all of the snowflakes here I look at the grades statistically and statistically 4s and 5s are the most common grades so aren't really special, if u dont like that dont like it and sure for some people it's an achievement but for any normal person it is just a grade, nothing special or extraordinary that requires celebration cause most people get a 4 or a 5