What does 3 and 4 mean in the old letter gcse's?

[elliejjtiny]

I know 9 is the top grade and 1 is the bottom. But not sure what number is equivalent to the old C grade and what 3 and 4 would be in the old system.

A kid with a 4 in English but a 9 in maths is perfectly capable of maths A-level (yes it happens).

You just reminded me of VI form. One of the boys resat O Level English twice a year (there used to be September resits) throughout VI form, I don't know if he eventually passed, he was taking maths and science and got good grades, but English was just not his thing.

My dd got a 4 in Maths in 2017, she done brilliantly to get that as she really struggled with Maths.

She is on her 2nd year of A-levels most of the colleges round here only need a 4 to get in. Some people on here must live in some really select areas.

A grade 4 is not likely to result in a decent grade A level. Ofsted reguarly criticise 6th forms for taking DC who are unlikely to pass at A level in any meaningful way. Most 6th forms I know want a 6 or 7 in the GCSE to study it at A level. Years ago they wanted an A*,A or B. A C was never good enough in most schools. The projections show this grade is too low for A level success and often leads to dropping out and poor progress. Its bums on seats, and therefore, money that means schools are not remotely selective. Grade C/4/5 probably should not be good enough to do an A level in that subject unless there are mitigating circumstances.

I honestly don't think anybody on this thread is saying a grade 4 should allow you to study THAT SUBJECT at A level, just that a lot of or even most school sixth forms accept a 4 as a pass in English or maths to enter sixth form, as most or all require a pass grade at those two subjects, regardless of what you are studying. Obv if you want to do A level maths you should be looking at 7+.

Remember a 9 is the top 2% of the grade boundary, an 8 is the old A*.

A 4 is a pass, but just like the old c's you probably wouldn't want to be studying that subject at a higher level but it means you are good enough at it to get on.

My son got 7's and 8's for sciences and maths and a 4 for English, more a demonstration of his lack of effort than actual ability. It's still a level 2 pass and lots of children try really hard to get that pass and should be celebrated for it, not being told it's a "low pass" or "just about a pass"

A 3 is a D, a 4 is a low C, a 5 is a high C/B a 6 is a high B, a 7 is a A, a 8 is an A, a 9 is like an A*

They have effectively re shaped the grading curve to make it so that there are more middle of the road grades (4-7) than there are high grades, e.g the difference between a 4 and 6 is the same as the difference between a 8 and 9 so really 4s and 5s are pretty comparable and they work out to be a C

@ali10376 a 9 is not an A+, it's an A++ aka A* also a 6 is a B and a 7 is an A and a 8 is an A, they pushed the grade boundaries up significantly at the high end so that most students only get 4s and 5s

I'm a teacher. A lot of people don't understand the new grades. A 4 is a standard pass. If a child gets less than a 4 in maths or English language they will need to do resits. Schools, colleges and universities can set their own requirements for further/Higher education. My children's school requires 7s to do A levels. The school my neighbour's children go to requires 5s. The local college requires 4s. My friend's daughter got level 3 for maths and is retaking it, however her school is also allowing her to do A level accountancy, so they must think she's actually working at a higher level and was just unlucky with that one exam. When I myself was at school many moons ago, my school required Cs to do A levels. I had a friend who got a D for the English literature GCSE, who was also allowed to do A level English lit. The entry requirements are not set in stone.

My DD is doing a combination of Welsh GCSEs and Cambridge iGCSE all her grades will be A*-G. Mumsnet is really poor at accepting that not everyone lives in England or has the same experiences. Universities are well used to accepting different qualifications from overseas and mature students.
Not all iGCSE students are from private schools either and there's the assumption that the iGCSE is easier, my daughter's set has switched to GCSE maths and their grades went up.

Callar - maybe that’s why Cambridge IGCSE retained the option to use letter grades then - so it could fit in with the Welsh GCSE?
Also I think some AQA GCSEs that have less take-up eg Classical Civilisation, may still have not switched to numerical grades?
I do agree that the IGCSE second maths paper was ridiculously hard this year, in a way that would have put a lot of students off. Someone told me people were getting “9s” with about 40% in that paper.

Here's a visual guide (screenshot attached)

What’s clear for all of us is that the new GCSEs are actually not that clear! Might have sorted out the top marks, but has made the mid range - which is actually really important - much more confusing!

@imip the new GCSEs are not confusing at all, the idea is to give students an idea of how good their pass is so they have weak pass Aka 4 and strong pass Aka 5, the difference between them is negligable but its just one more step of granularity for employers to sort through the sea of people who got Cs and say these people got a low C and these people got a high C, this is because arround 50% of people used to get Cs so when that many people have the same grade it's hard to work out who is better unless they got a B or above which then puts people with a C at a disadvantage but the new system sort of mitigates the old ones flaw of everyone looking the same on paper

Am I right in thinking that a 9 is not higher than an A was, but is the top x% of an A?

I’m not sure fedup. I think because grade boundaries obviously vary year to year anyway, a 9 will always be a certain % of entrants?
Maybe noblegiraffe can help here?

@fedup21 yes a 9 is higher than an A*, usually top 3% to top 1% achieve it each year though usually its arround the top 2.7% achieve it

yes a 9 is higher than an A, usually top 3% to top 1% achieve it each year though usually its arround the top 2.7% achieve it*

Though thinking about it, those top 1-3% of pupils would previously have got an A, so it is actually the top slice of the As rather than above the A*?

Well as previously as an A was up to 100% it is basically one and the same as a higher grade and a slice of the A grade

A 4 is a C
A 7 is an A

They are the two 'anchor points' that linked the new system to the old system. The rest is just people trying to attach 'meaning' to the new numbers.

Ofqual sent out information when dd did hers - first year of almost all exams done this way.

They had
4 - C
5 - high c/low B
6 - B
7 - A
8 and 9 - A* with 9 being the top x% of those

A 3 is roughly a D, 2 an E and 1 an F

A 4 is not a weak pass It is a standard pass.

Why is there the need to pull down the achievements of young people with this kind of tone?! It's not fair. It's just not right.

@Aragog a 4 isnt really an achievement, u dont even need 50% in most subjects to get a 4, a 6 or above is an achievement

@Aragog it’s a minimum pass and a 5 is a stronger pass/ high C equivalent. It’s an achievement for some to get a 4 but for others it would be disappointing. It’s very subjective.

Shmarv a 4 isnt really an achievement

Do you have any idea how rude/condescending that sounds?

If my DD gets 4s for all her GCSEs we'll be delighted and shouting it from the rooftops. No it won't be good enough for University or A levels, but for her it would be a tremendous achievement.

For a child who was premature, neglected, globally delayed, with motor skills issues and processing problems getting 4s would be a massive achievement.

Please think before your write.

It's so typical of MN and its own spectacular brand of grade inflation that kids who get 4s and pass are done down by that sort of language

Thanks for typing this so that i didn't have to.