Can anyone prove their parents didn't go to uni?

[whostolemypumpkin]

These days a lot of university outreach and other opportunities seem to prioritise applicants whose parents didn't go to university. Unlike free school meals, or ethnicity, it seems to heavily rely on honesty rather than being provable. Or have I missed something? Most people are honest, but perhaps less so when the stakes are high. Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I doubt it.

I have twins at Bristol. I worked very hard (and I accept cleaners etc of course work hard) to pay school fees and have always worked full time even when they were one week old babies!

That university's contextual offer system is quite a blunt instrument. The people down the road mmy son by chance met there live in a £3m house ( I had to drop his stuff of there last year - amazing house, rich people) but chose a school, on the contextual offers list. It can be a very very unfair system - there is non working housewife with her feet up, massive house, rich husband and they get contextual offers. or you get locally because of where I live both parents came over from another country - no university educaion but very bright and lots of tiger mothers - I am not sure their children particularly deserve advantages in terms of lower grades.

One of Bristol's criteria for a contextual offer is going to one of hte UK's 40% of worst performing schols - that is almost half of UK schools not the very worst comps in the country. The list is here www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/English-aspiring-state-schools-2020-21-cycle.pdf

"Our contextual offer is a grade reduction of up to two grades below the standard entry requirements and is made to those from backgrounds who, generally, are less likely to come here."

As for whether people will lie about parents' education - of course some people will. I would rather my children failed at everything than that they ever lied or cheated but some familes seem to specialise in dishonesty in all aspects of their lives.

Some of you sound like you resent that kids from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are being given a chance. It's made me feel sick reading some of the comments on this thread. Do you realise how much harder kids from these backgrounds will have had to work and the barriers they will have had to overcome? I'm sure the kids being given these offers wish that they didn't need them, seriously, some of you sound jealous of under privileged kids . Check your privilege.

Oh and justneed there is actually evidence that suggests that kids from state schools actually do better then they get to university. So your assumption that those with bbb are less likely to well is a load of shit quite frankly. A kid from a school that is failing in a deprived area and achieving bbb has worked incredibly hard and is probably equally as clever as the AAA kid from the posh school who has been spoon fed.

*when they get to university.

I agree with amibeing some kids have such a leg up from parents and being in good schools. I have had DC who have attended both local grammar schools and a local failing comprehensive. My DC at the comprehensive definitely faced more barriers such as poor behaviours in class whereas my DC who attended grammar school were surrounded by generally motivated children with supportive parents. Although I often felt that in the comprehensive school the teachers were more skilled at engaging pupils, my DC had a worse day to day deal and would have deserved a contextual offer up against the grammar school pupils ( often privately tutored as well). Sadly this was a long time ago and these type of offers were not commonplace. However, they all attended university. We do live in a poorer postcode with antisocial behaviour and drug issues. I do think my DC and children in similar situations deserve a contextual offer.

Whilst you don't need to provide evidence of a parent's work record, for most contextual offers the school has to fill in an application form and verify the student is a first generation applicant (to the best of their knowledge). An applicant may want to lie, but the school doesn't really have an incentive to encourage them to - it's potentially preventing one of their MORE disadvantaged kids getting an offer.

I'm not sure about other unis, but I recently filled in a reference form for 'Access to Leeds', and open university degrees didn't count, neither did professional degrees gained part time whilst at work, or degrees earned whilst the child is in secondary education. 'First generation' generally means parent didn't have a traditional university experience, but often degrees earned through work in later life aren't counted.

A lot of universities now catch on to the postcode thing too - they ask if you're in receipt of the 16-19 bursary or free school meals, which are means tested and harder to fake! Those kids get prioritised for contextual offers over and above the ones who just live in a 'shit' postcode but have parents with well paid jobs.

The government is using a very blunt instrument to try and make universities "inclusive". From the comprehensive I taught in it was made very clear to Oxbridge and other RG candidates that their background was an advantage. And that was up to seven years ago. But I never relied on this and ensured my charges got the best A-level grades possible as well as being able to fill their Personal Statements with the right sort of achievements. I gave them what a Public School would have given them and this enabled them to battle through university application on a level playing field. And no, none of them ever had to prove that their parents didn't go to uni. The only way to ever make uni application completely fair would be to ban both grammar schools and private fee-paying schools. But that ain't happening soon!

Sorry to be thick but what kinds of opportunities are asking this question?

I was ineligible for a couple of retraining things because of having been to uni myself but parents is a bit weird. Tbh I found the uni for myself weird but that’s a whole other conversation!

The government is using a very blunt instrument to try and make universities "inclusive".

What blunt instrument is theGovernment using Stanley? Universities are not required to, or funded for, increasing the number of first in families. Where these interventions exist it's because the university actively wants to target this group.

@RedskyToNight I had four contact hours a week during my degree. Some courses have less. I could have easily fitting a full time job around that.

@StanleySteamer how is it fair to deny someone an education for choices their parents made? Surely the only way to make it fair is for the government to provide a proper education?

I could have easily fitting a full time job around that.

Depends on the nature of the job surely? If it's the sort of job where you have to be in an office from 9-5 you'd struggle to manage to be at university for 4 hours during that period (unless university was next door and the hours were all near lunch time I suppose). A lot of DH's jobs involved travel; it would have been nigh on impossible for him to make fixed hours at a fixed location. If you were self employed and could choose your own hours it might be more likely.

I could have easily fitting a full time job around that.

Where a course has very low contact hours, students are expected to spend the remaining hours studying.... if you can hold down a full time job, go to four hours of lectures, read two Thomas Hardy novels and critically analyse them each week and still gain decent grades you must be superwoman! Most can't though.

how is it fair to deny someone an education for choices their parents made

Who's being denied an education? OP is talking about extra curricular stuff, with those from a disadvantaged background being given priority for places. Because you know, they're disadvantaged.

Is this a new thing? I went to a summer school when I was 16 that was for people whose parents hadn't been to uni. I am 31 now. I think it must have just been honesty based at the time, but I hadn't really thought about it much.

I was the first person of my generation in my huge family to ever go to uni, it was something you just didn't do and I'm a woman, yeah!
I left school with nothing and finally got to uni in my thirties.

It's awful that someone who had been given opportunities would feel the need to lie about this.

In the county I grew up in, 100% of schools/colleges are on that list from Bristol

Interesting - that all the local schools in one area are on the Bristol list.

the comment further up that you would have to abolish private schools and grammars to make things fairer does not entirely work either because there are some selective state academices and also comprehensives ina reas where house prices are £1m+ - posh comps as it were - which would still mean unfairness. UYnlses we cloned every child int he land and had them all brough up on identical group homes I doubt we could ever make things wholly "fair" in terms of your genes and your treatment at home by parents and your school including tutoring like the blairs had done for their state religious school educated children (roman catholic).

Usually the most competitive widening participation schemes (summer schools or supported entry for example) target student on postcode. Students will need to be from a participation POLAR or IMD postcode depending on the universities targeting system. That’s the primary method of recruitment and the secondary are what we’d class as other widening participation characteristics such as being first in family for example. So even if you did lie the benefits you’d receive would be small.

I’m a widening participation manager at a uni so happy to answer any questions you have on these sort of schemes.

“ ’m a widening participation manager at a uni so happy to answer any questions you have on these sort of schemes.”

I’ve not heard anything about this so I’d be interested to hear more generally please. What kind of opportunities are having this criteria attached?

@autumnrose1 it’s a very broad range but everything from residential summer schools, campus visits, subject master classes, study skills support, ucas application support or supported admissions programmes where students complete a set number of tasks/events and receive a reduced offer or financial support. Exactly what a university offers is determined by their access and participation plan

I know of someone who lied about DS being on free-school-meals to try to boost their potential application to a much-sought after college.

I have always wondered about this, as many people will go to extraordinary lengths to put their own DC ahead (thinking of the parents who helicopter into catchments areas for the best secondary schools, living in rented accommodation).

The issue of where you live postcode-wise doesn't necessarily mean you are disadvantaged though. It isn't uncommon for well educated people to not necessarily live in affluent areas, particularly if they work in the public sector and work in cities where house-prices are high.

@Stillabitemo

Thank you

It does sound a bit mad tbh. It reminds me a bit of a poster saying her child’s school raised concerns because they didn’t have a microwave or a dishwasher.

I also can think of examples of very middle-class families where parents didn't go to university (once upon a time, not everyone did), so the idea of their DC being advantaged by such schemes when in every other way they already are would be laughable.

I don't think whether you parent went to Uni makes much difference. The main thing seems to be where you live and what school you go to. Obvs you could "work the system" but would people, given the choice, really make their DC go through this to get an offer a grade lower at A level?