Double fees big dilemma

[alexasmith]

DS is in a private school, TBH not as a first choice. He started at state school but DS has SEN needs and they just couldn't cope with it. As a result he had horrific yr 7 and we needed to get him out. The only other school around that we thought would suit better to his needs is a small PS. Now he is there and things have improved significantly.

Our DD is 4yrs younger. She is very bright, very academic and eager to learn and achieve. She is already (at age 10) have clear ambition for higher education and a career in science. She cruises through primary and at the top of her class with all straight top marks.

State seconderys around us are OK but nothing special or with focuse on sicence. We prefer a girls school but they are all co-ed. On the 'Privete' side, there are couple of private girls schools which are exceptionally good and at the top of the leauge tables. The culture of both schools is lovely and well rounded which DD and us all like. School is very academic without being pushy or highly competitive like others we have visited, including the only state selective we can try for with 11+ test (cut throat competition so low chances of getting in anyway and DD was not tutored long enough) and we don't actually like it anyway as the girls are all a bit miserable and stressed out from the competition.

We know that if she gets into one her two top choices, she will be very and do really well. Forgot to say DD also excel at gymnastics and one of them have a good gym team..

Our dilemma is simply fees. We can just about afford one child in PS but with two will have to remorgage our house, get cash out and instead of investing in the well over due renovations (kitchen, bathrooms falling apart) which we were planning to start this year, will need to sacrifice for education, gambling that the private route will get her to where she wants to get in life.

The other issue of course is that she is well aware of her older brother going to a PS and we are worried she will feel disadvantaged, not because she is not at a private school, but rather because she didn't get her prefers choice of school and feel compromised and miss out.

Please help me make sense of this.

While I agree that a bright child will probably be fine anywhere there are some real misconceptions about Private Schools. The PP who claimed that failing teachers could only get jobs in private schools must have been around in the 60s! We get around 100 applicants for most jobs we advertise and we only shortlist 5 candidates- our teachers are very well qualified specialists so for example we wouldn’t take someone with a media Studies degree to teach English. My experience as a PGCE mentor in recent years has opened my eyes to the lack of subject knowledge some teachers now have. The private tutoring comment is also not true.

I think that as you earn good salaries which are over the 'threshold' and have equity in your home then you are unlikely to get a bursary and personally in those circumstances I don't think you should.

Find out on the parental grapevine which schools offer generous scholarships as these vary hugely.

Good luck finding a school that offers a bursary for a child with SEN - schools round here actually charge more in terms of paying extra for all the additional help you have to pay for.

I agree Musmerian. We aren't in London but have very long school days and fixtures on Saturdays - goodness knows when you would fit tutoring in

Definitely check out the bursaries. I was surprised that both at DS and Dd schools the max joint income is £120k check out academic scholarships too although they don’t tend to amount to much they could help.

Maybe also look at top boarding schools with bursaries

@Molmantar I hear you but OP did say her options are good. Plus her DD is already doing super well in a state school

I thought perhaps I hadn’t read the post properly, but the state school OP mentions doesn’t come across as being terribly good, otherwise I presume she wouldn’t have this dilemma?
And doing well in a state school primary, doesn’t always translate into continued success at secondary. It depends on the cohort too. Our youngest daughter was ‘top of the class’ in her state primary before we pulled her out. They spent more time trying to bring less able children up to standard, and zero time challenging those who were already working above the standard. In her prep school there are no SAT constraints or class limitations imposed by having such a broad cohort. She has been setted since year 4, and for an able child I do think that was vital. From my experience with both primary & secondary, private education enables a more tailored flexible approach. In state school, you are expected to run with the herd. Sorry if that sounds crass, but my state school experiences with both children, were very much like that.

@Schoolmumm I am really sorry that your state school experience is so dire. My DD is in year 7 and bottom and top attainers have been set from the beginning. Only mix are the middle attainers. Her Art, Drama and DT classes only have 15 children in them and they have a whole school musical they can take part in. She is bottom set as has SEN and her maths and english class is her plus 7 children. There is no space to mess around. Her school has been incredibly flexible and the most able are super stretched. She was able to drop a language and instead have SALT with no problems. This is a normal state school with a 'GOOD' ofsted. Most of the schools in our borough are like this which has its pros and cons as some of the children are very pressured.
Our primary experience was horrible though and they were the opposite to you- only the smart kids saw the time of day.

It such a personal choice at the end of the day and I think it goes back to the OP. What is right for one child isn't for another.

OP You said one of the private schools that you are considering has a focus on gymnastics - it would be worth asking them about a specifically gymnastics sports scholarship, and explaining that otherwise it’s probably not doable financially. If they have a squad and want to maintain their standard, they may well be keen to have her. It’s also worth asking her coach (or someone at her gym) what they know about various local schools being supportive (or not) of that level of commitment to gymnastics. You wouldn’t want her to end up somewhere where they made it hard for her to get to training or competitions where she had to miss some school time, for example.

Why not prep her for the 11 plus and spend money on that not the private school? Gymnastics surely she can do at her d club ? Soz about stickers 3 yr old typing codes

I know 2 families where one child is in private education and one state. With one it’s a similar situation - older child needed the extra help, youngest didn’t. With the 2nd the son is in an 18k a year school, DD is in a state secondary. She didn’t want to go private. I don’t think you have to offer it to both if not same situation. If you feel you’ve got no choice then I guess you’ll have to re-mortgage - which seems crazy if there’s state schools that she will excel in

I'd start out with the state secondary for DD. I'd tutor from the get go. I'd make sure you keep up all her clubs etc. If by the end of year 9 you're not happy then move her for year 10. You'll have saved yourself 2 years worth of fees. Even if she does year 10 and it's all a disaster the private school will likely let her repeat it.

Wow Molmontar..your school sounds incredible! I’m assuming you don’t live in a GS county? I have cousins who live in a fully comprehensive county, and their eldest is starting at Cambridge this Autumn. They’ve had the luxury of a fabulous state school all the way through...it does make me rather envious sometimes

My PIL got themselves in such a financial mess because of double fees they couldn’t afford. Don’t do it. Just don’t.

No tutoring at DDs private secondary. Don't know anyone in private system that is tutored at this point.

I think you have to be prepared to let the second child go to private school if they want to. If they don't want to, then that's fine, but it seems really unfair to only give one the opportunity. I think that could have a much deeper effect on the family dynamic for years to come.

My daughter was privately educated from thr age of four until she finished secondary and I can say in the south east, tutoring is the exception rather than the norm. I also am close friends with two kids who tutor, and they don't have any private pupils. I'm sure it happens but I'd also agree it's not the norm.

I do think op it's a bit shit go expect her to go to school and then have to come home and go through tutoring, it just extends her school day.

The bottom line is you can't afford it, so need to think of another plan, Ie your son going to sixth form college and your daughter going private at 14. There are ways to work it out. But you need to at least try to give her the same opportunities as your son, and not make her come home and do tutoring every night.

@Orangesarenot... I don't get your point? The tutoring I was talking about is going on in a state school, not private. It's got Ofsted Outstanding but the teaching is so "outstanding" that tutoring is the norm. My fried paid for 3 different tutored to get her DS through A-levels. £60 p/hr per subject! Almost every week so A LOT. He did ok at the end. This is where the rating comes from. And yes, London madness it is.

I live in a GS area and it's reasonably common around here that a family will have children in a combination of private and state, depending on whether or not they take/pass the 11+. If they do - grammar. If they don't - private. Couldn't tell you what the long term effect is though!

Tutoring happens everywhere. Comp, private ,grammar and primary. For 11+, GCSE SATs and ALevels. Trying to pretend parents with kids in private schools don’t partake is ridiculous.

And ‘extra support’ outside of lessons is tutoring.

@Bluntness100 as some of these people have mentioned, private schools have incredibly long days. With tutoring she will probably finish before them. Plus, I don't know anyone that has a tutor everyday. I think you should write down all the options, see what deadlines you have to meet and than maybe revisit this thread once you have the results. Not much point deliberating about it when you don't know what cards you have to play with.

@Schoolmumm we are in North London and there are two or three grammars quite far from each other. Their catchment is very big and they are super selective so not many kids actually go to them. Our area is also very liberal and people tend to send to their local state not out of lack of money but more to prove a political point. I think this drives up the results too as the very deprived kids get to mix with kids that have very high ambitions and great connections. This is also an area where lots of charities like Teach First love to come and 'save' deprived kids from their 'awful' upbringing. I have my opinions on it but that's a whole other thread. We are overall very fortunate with our choices.

AB1yer yes tutoring is big business everywhere, and at every stage of the educational journey, but in my experience with private schools in the SE, it is certainly not the norm at senior school. I know many people with bright kids who have turned down GS places, because they felt it would be too much of an exam factory experience, and they have opted for private schools that still achieve well, but not with quite the same fervour of pressure. My friends with kids in GS are the ones who are hiring tutors. Largely because they were tutored to pass the 11+, or did 12+ and 13+ to get there. And then once there, they are struggling. The tutoring is is to boost C|D grades up to the minimum Bs they need to stay for 6th form. And even then they aren’t always successful! One girl I know was not allowed to stay for A level, as she had no grade higher than a C...in spite of tutoring since year 7!! There’s a lot of bright kids at private secondaries these days, where the parents aren’t bothered whether they get 1A* or 12....it’s the overall package that counts, and having a happy child at the end of it all!

@Schoolmumm that's really sad. That girl is probably so talented in other areas and would do great learning a trade or a skill. In situations like that it's not the school but the parent's that failed i think. Trying to make their children fit into a box they dont belong in.