Double fees big dilemma

[alexasmith]

DS is in a private school, TBH not as a first choice. He started at state school but DS has SEN needs and they just couldn't cope with it. As a result he had horrific yr 7 and we needed to get him out. The only other school around that we thought would suit better to his needs is a small PS. Now he is there and things have improved significantly.

Our DD is 4yrs younger. She is very bright, very academic and eager to learn and achieve. She is already (at age 10) have clear ambition for higher education and a career in science. She cruises through primary and at the top of her class with all straight top marks.

State seconderys around us are OK but nothing special or with focuse on sicence. We prefer a girls school but they are all co-ed. On the 'Privete' side, there are couple of private girls schools which are exceptionally good and at the top of the leauge tables. The culture of both schools is lovely and well rounded which DD and us all like. School is very academic without being pushy or highly competitive like others we have visited, including the only state selective we can try for with 11+ test (cut throat competition so low chances of getting in anyway and DD was not tutored long enough) and we don't actually like it anyway as the girls are all a bit miserable and stressed out from the competition.

We know that if she gets into one her two top choices, she will be very and do really well. Forgot to say DD also excel at gymnastics and one of them have a good gym team..

Our dilemma is simply fees. We can just about afford one child in PS but with two will have to remorgage our house, get cash out and instead of investing in the well over due renovations (kitchen, bathrooms falling apart) which we were planning to start this year, will need to sacrifice for education, gambling that the private route will get her to where she wants to get in life.

The other issue of course is that she is well aware of her older brother going to a PS and we are worried she will feel disadvantaged, not because she is not at a private school, but rather because she didn't get her prefers choice of school and feel compromised and miss out.

Please help me make sense of this.

schoolmumm it's very true, the state school my DS started at yr7 is rated "Outstanding" but a lot of tutoring is going on. I know that from some friends who just
paid thousands to get thier DC through A-levels. The Outstanding rating is maintained by rich parents who invested their money in real estate near the school to get in so now need to justify thier choice of school I sopuse..(house prices are insane in the catchment). The teaching at the school was completely average, completely knackered facility, huge 1700 odd student count, messy management and no SEN support what so ever, so indeed "Outstanding".
Me too, friends who have kids at PS never had tutoring.

My children that did not go to private school had money spent on them in different ways - linked to their hobbies. And as the children that didn’t go to private school ended up with better grades and did more subjects at GCSE, they actually got the better deal.

I suppose you could hire private tutors for your dd for now . Then when your ds finishes GCSEs you could enrol your dd in the private school if you so wish

Maybe because I am in London, but I know only a few children out of many in private that aren't tutored, and they're only in Y7. Most keep the tutors that got them through the 11+ which in this bulge year was madness in London. I am not trying to slate private schools, I think they are a great choice for many. But what @Schoolmumm has said is not true. It is great that your daughter turned out well but that is an impossible statement to make. You cannot know how your daughter would've turned out had she gone to a different school. Plus your daughter is now a graduate, the amount of pressure children are now under is no comparison to what once was even just 10 years ago.

Please also ignore the other comparisons of people frankly being subjected to clear and cruel favouritism by their parents. All normal people know that children are all different. Some siblings go to state others go to private and there's hundreds of families like this. It is daft to think that your daughter would begrudge you, unless you put her through what some of these people here had to go through.

There are hundreds of charities that offer support and if she is bright than do call around at bursary support, you'd be surprised how much there is out there.

I am astonished by malmontar and alexasmith 's tales of additional tutoring. What would be the point of paying all that money to then buy extra teaching? When do they fit it in? My kids aren't home until 7pm most days and play sport all weekend! Is this a London thing? Truly, if I had to cough up extra (and frankly couldn't if I wanted to) I don't think it would be worth it! Although it is worth saying that you don't just send kids privately for the results, it's all the other enrichment, better facilities, sports etc. But still, colour me gobsmacked.

Thank you everyone so much for your thoughts. I think the message of not denying the opportunity from second child is coming load and clear.
I do appropriate the other points also others have made re investing in extra curricular and don't sink into huge debts that will definitely kill family holidays and Reno but I can see how the emotional side effect can be costly too..
dd is currently in a gym squade practicing 4 days a week. No room in her schedule for a blink.

Ask about scholarships and bursaries you may be pleasantly surprised.

OP, have you enquired about bursaries at the schools???

Do the private school with the gym offer bursaries or scholarships?

Malmontar...our daughter only did her A levels last year, so our experience is very much within the present day competitive backdrop! And yes we can without one shadow of doubt, say that our daughter would not have done as well at our secondary catchment school. I know many kids of relatives and friends who have all been through this school, and not one has done anything academically aspirational. Not one! They have all done a myriad of childcare, beauty college, the odd low paid apprenticeship etc etc. The ones who did A levels or Btech and made it to uni, went to non RG unis with lower end grade requirements. And once they were there...a lot dropped out. I know it can be different in other counties, but that is how it is around here.

@Schoolmumm Maybe I am blinded by London, we are very fortunate to have great state schools with hundreds of extra curricular activities and loads of them having teachers till 7pm for homework help. I honestly don't know a single private school child- (and I grew up with a lot of them) that did not have a tutor. I am very happy for you that your school could deliver all of this.

However, back to OP's dilemma, I still dont think, with the options she has, it is worth going through all that financial worry. Op your children are very different. Giving a child with SEN additional help doesn't advantage them, it gives them an equal footing. Your DD sounds like she gets to do lots of things she loves and doesnt have to sacrifice her gym lessons in exchange for her brothers games kit. Situations like that are what I agree is horrible. Not this. We have a friend who sent their DS to the local prep as the state primary wasn't meeting his needs in terms of his SEN. He has flourished there. His sister is going to the local, very good, state secondary because she has different needs. Not because her parents favour their son.

Re bursaries, so yes, we have looked. Pretty sure we are not qualified. I know we are not at the current school where DS gos. Based on the websites information I think we will be lucky as both of us have decent incomes (which still is far from enough for double fees, mortgage, etc.....). I have the impression that you need to be really poor or a single parent so i am even embarrassed to ask before they have met my child. Who knows, she may do so well in the entrance exam that they will offer a scholarship on academic merit. However, one of the two schools in question have already said they don't give academic scholarships (as they don't believe one is better than the other if they have already been accepted to this school, which is interesting) and the one with the gym team might consider scholarship for sport but will be minimal, like 10%? So possibly not a deal breaker.

Amazing how sport considered less of a 'talent' compare to music scholarships which are all over the place, makes we a bit angry.. but that is probably a topic for a different thread.

@alexasmith honestly, please just apply anyway. The worst they can say is no. There is often a place on the application form to explain your situation and you can attach a letter too.

And please also remember that your daughter is already so passionate about school and her subjects... and this is at a state primary. There is no way in knowing that this won't carry on into secondary, regardless where she goes.

I totally agree the decision should be based on the individual child’s needs and choosing the school where they are likely to be served best, not because there may be some perceived inequality.
But if the OP’s catchment options are anything like ours, then I would definitely be looking down the private route.
Incidentally, a child of a friend that lives in London, left a high achieving London private last year, now studying maths at a very good RG....never had tutoring either. She passed 11+ but took up a generous scholarship instead.
It’s never good to generalise, we can only offer our own experiences, and it seems there is a huge disparity in quality of schooling from one county to the next.
Good luck with your decision OP.

@malmontar thanks, I hear you and you are absolutely right🤞

@schoolmumm thank you.

Bty, DH not convinced by emotional price (hmm..) but nevertheless see the advantage both schools have. Only couple months for application deadline...

@Schoolmumm I hear you but OP did say her options are good. Plus her DD is already doing super well in a state school. I'm sorry your options are so dire but it really does seem like its up to where you live unfortunately. Of course, everyone knows someone that did something.

All the best in your choice OP.

Tutoring of secondary school pupils in private school is pretty unusual. As PP mentioned, when would it even fit in with long school days and fixtures on Saturdays.

I am not talking London schools but know plenty of others - extra support is offered in private schools for those struggling in my experience.

With regards to bursaries, it is worth enquiring but if you have a lot of equity in your property there is often an expectation that you use that which is fair enough really.

If you can afford it with a few sacrifices then great but obviously if it is at the expense of food then personally I wouldn't do it.

Different children have different needs and you could always move daughter in yr 9 which is very common and cut down further on the years of double fees.

Also worth checking if there is a sibling discount as some schools do offer this.

I have the impression that you need to be really poor or a single parent so i am even embarrassed to ask before they have met my child.

Ah, yes ... In my experience not a single parent who has been too embarrassed to apply for a bursary has ever been awarded one.

Fair enough, I may have been unclear about being "embarrassed". TBH, I am not really, or shy, or take things at face value at all, far from it. It is just the fact that I did my research and have read the school policy which is very clear. So above X income you are simply not qualified. We are way over..so asking the question feels like playing dumb.

But maybe you are right and there are ways a round or so exceptions or I simply catch them in a good day to ignore thier own policy?..:)

This is bursaries only. For scholarships I am pretty sure you have to apply, sit the exam, get amazing results then talk money. You can't do that now before they have met your child. They will tell you to go read on the website...

I’m in London and there is a lot of tutoring of private school pupils. A friend of mine tutors in London and all her pupils are at highly regarded secondary independent schools. It’s very normal.

You may also find there are bursaries for SEN in that private schools being charities have to show some charitable efforts to remain charities for the tax advantages. Ask.