[Opinion] Former Habs Girl - I would not send my kids to Haberdashers' Aske's, Elstree. Here's why.

[formerhabsgirl]

Hi everyone

I've been thinking things over and feel this is the best place I can give this opinion, so that any parents thinking about sending their child to Haberdashers' Aske's School for Girls in Elstree can see it from the eyes of someone who went there, and not just a school prospectus.

I went to Habs Girls from the age of 11 to 18 and left relatively recently. I went on to Oxford and graduated with a first. Last week, a friend's Mum asked my opinion on Habs, as a colleague was thinking about sending their daughter there. The opinions I give below are my own and in no way affiliated with the school’s.

My experience of Habs Girls was that it was awful for pastoral support. I went from a straight A* student to barely being able to hand in essays. A teacher in a senior position asked me to come to her office and proceeded to tell me that if her friends, who she told me were barristers/lawyers etc, could function and go to work, even though they had previously been suicidal, then I could finish my essays. I also am pretty sure (from diary entries and my own memory) that another kept a girl in the school, who had an eating disorder at the time, waiting outside her office for the whole day while there were school-wide celebrations occurring (I can't go into much more detail here, otherwise I might reveal more than I want to). She felt so ashamed and unhappy (the girl, not the teacher). In my memory (and I kept several diaries detailing the events, which I have since checked over to refresh things) she never asked me how I could have gone from a student with top grades to a student barely being able to function. All I remember is blame, blame, blame, and criticism when I tried to explain myself. Another teacher made fun of the fact that I used to apologise all the time for handing in work late, without asking me why this had suddenly started happening.

I had never a 'problem student.' In fact, I was made a prefect before I started being ill. However, when I experienced difficulties that not my fault, I was shouted at by one teacher in front of a year 8 class when I asked for a day-long essay extension due to illness. While I completely understand that everything is subjective, I clearly remember events like these happening and, from the perspective of someone in their twenties, who has gone through the system, I struggle to think how this could have been anything other than being… well, really bad at an aspect of one’s job.

I went to Oxford and achieved a first class degree. Those who know I went to Habs Girls (relatives etc.) have since asked me how I would credit Habs Girls in my overall success. My overwhelming memory of Habs Girls was how critical it was when it came to grades. My mother confirmed a memory I am about to share, as we both went along to a parent's evening in year 9 to talk about GCSE options - she remembered being as shocked as I was. The headmistress gave a speech, during which she was talking about whether to take 9 or 10 GCSEs. She said – and my mother remembers this too – “remember, it is far better to get 9 As rather than 9 As and 1 A.”

I believe that Habs Girls limits its students by promoting perfectionism. I cannot overstate this enough. There is such a pervading atmosphere of perfectionism in that place. I feel like a lot of parents act like it’s wonderful when students get straight As in GCSEs and A-Levels. They forget or choose to overlook the fact there is often a great deal of fear that is instilled in students about NOT getting those top grades. I have been around girls who have had panic attacks about the possibility of getting a B. There were girls in tears because they ‘only’ got 8 As and 1A during GCSE day. Girls who think they’re not good enough.

Why am I saying this now? Why did I not complain? Because I wasn’t old enough to realise that the teacher(s) I’ve mentioned had committed a gross error and had been (again, in my opinion) terrible at their jobs. I didn’t stand up to myself because mental health awareness was not present at Habs, and was not made a priority. I was a teenage girl, up against people who never asked me what was wrong, but instead told me off for not achieving. When I was at school, I believed that everything was my fault. I used to cry and cry and wonder how everything had gone so wrong. Having been to the place where ‘everyone wanted to go to’ – ie Oxbridge - and having had a great time there, I can now say wholeheartedly that the problem was not mine. They did not do enough to help me, and to help other girls who had similar or very different problems. Even when I was at freakin’ OXFORD, it was less of a perfectionist place than Habs Girls, in my experience.

I wonder, if anyone reads this, if I’ll get the response ‘it’s not for everyone: some people can hack it, and some people can’t.’ To this I would say: I got straight As and a first from Oxford. I never had any problem with Oxford whatsoever – compared to Habs Girls, it was honestly a lot easier to cope with, mentally. So I don’t really think the argument that ‘oh it was okay for her at uni because she had only one subject to concentrate on’ holds much weight, because I did well when I was doing a range of subjects. When I was at school (on paper only haha) I was arguably ‘the ideal Habs Girl’ – sporty, A grades across the board, Oxbridge – and yet I was treated really badly when I needed support and empathy. If I could hack Oxford and flourish in it, but me and several other girls had mental breakdowns/pulled all-nighters in part because of fear over not being ‘good enough…’ then I don’t think the fault really lies with my personality or how I handle things.

I want to give a shout out to the nice teachers who did go there – because there were some. There were some lovely and kind teachers who only wanted to help. They’re not being paid enough! But I’m afraid that several nice teachers do not reverse the really bad atmosphere that pervades the school. Even though I am sure some of the not-so-great teachers might have left, I would be very worried about sending anyone there, because of the ruthless perfectionism. If I have children of my own, then I would much rather prioritise students’ happiness than their grades. Habs Girls, in my opinion, is not worth the money. I am now considering going to counselling because I still have awful memories from that time. Sorry to be blunt, but I wish my parents had been able to see something like this before they'd decided to send me there.

Love

A Former Habs Girl

Interesting to read this thread. I went there, about 10 years before the OP. I was in a somewhat below average comp from 11-16, which had its share of problems: many lessons disrupted in years 7-10 to the point where little teaching was possible; high levels of teenage pregnancy; occasional bullying; cases of bringing weapons to school; generally low aspirations in a lot of pupils. Even so, several of the teachers were excellent and there was huge variation in how different teachers could hold a class (or not). I got straight A*s but the science A-levels I wanted weren't offered so I went to Habs for years 12 and 13. I was impressed by the levels of good (non-disruptive) behaviour. Some of the teachers were excellent. There was support for Oxbridge applications (there was an Oxbridge coordinator post!). The teaching could be imaginative and often went beyond the curriculum. There were many extras - critical thinking, debating, sports and music - we even extracted DNA and ran long-range PCRs from scratch! Above all the difference in the aspirations of the pupils was amazing. At Habs there was a sense that any future was possible, though I guess that was as much about the socio-economic status of the parents as the school itself.

On the surface, the school was supportive and girls were confident and happy. But problems weren't dealt with well. Anyone who got more than a few Bs was pushed out at 16. When a pupil came down with a serious health issue in Y12 she was pushed out and not allowed to come back to take her exams. There were mental health problems, and many girls lacked confidence. Some friends since have taken years to get over their experience and some haven't managed to get over it still. I am myself grateful for the high quality of education provided and I am under no illusions that I would have had a much more uphill struggle to try to get into Cambridge from anywhere else. Cambridge was a lower stress environment than Habs though!

Hmm. Wish you went to a state school? Easy to say when you weren’t required to do it.
They have their own pressures, you know.

@CruCru - is that not a bit rude to suggest the OP isn't whom she says she is?

OP I believe you and your experiences. The fact that it's Habs and not {insert any other highly selective independent school in London/Herts} is irrelevant. The OP's point is that mental well-being isn't a focus at such schools and many here have echoed that. In my view, we as parents are the reason - we get what we ask for.

Whilst it's important to be able to move on, it's a lot worse to merely try and bury experiences like this.

Today I had a difficult but important conversation with people about something traumatic which happened a few weeks ago. I chose to speak up about it because years back I was in a similar (though worse and prolonged) situation and I tried to bury it and move forward without any support or therapy and I'm still suffering ptsd from it now.

I went to a high-performance all-girls school where several girls were under immense pressure from parents. I was under a lot of pressure but luckily my parents weren't paying for my education because I know it would have been worse.

That school couldn't cope with mental health issues or students requiring support with home issues. I left there self harming and before completing even a year of a-levels. It's taken me years to get my life straight.

I would rather have achieved less academically, but been left with my mental health intact. In my eyes, there's nothing which should be traded for a kid's sound mental health.

Thank you op for such a refreshing post.. I’m considering a high achieving school for my bright daughter.. as I want to give her the best opportunities, but more than that, having read your post I want to give her happiness and confident...with your post today you helped a mother to see the insights of. High achieving school... and you may have helped a little girl who wants to be a scientist. Thank you 😊

I think that what I don’t like about this thread is the emphasis that this is the OP’s opinion and experience - pretty much all of MN is based on opinion and experience. Based on the OP’s experience, she would not send her own daughters to the school and has asked that parents consider what she has to say before sending theirs. This is pretty damning stuff and the school should be able to respond. I think a former school governor did and was told that she was denying the OP’s lived experience.

This thread has gone up in August so all the current teaching staff and senior management will be on holiday. Therefore it will be up for at least a fortnight before anyone who currently works at this school is likely to respond, if they choose to.

I did not go to this school, I don’t work there and I don’t have children there. I have heard of it but that’s about it.

The idea that self harming, mental health issues and high pressure are exclusively found in selective private schools is wrong. These problems are everywhere and in every school. Schools are struggling to deal with these issues just as society is.

I agree that mental health issues are huge in every type of school, and increasing. I think the particular gripe with some highly selective private schools like Habs is that they have the resources to deal with these issues more effectively than under-resourced state schools yet not enough is being done. Because they are highly selective they are arguably damaging the life prospects of a fair number of pupils who are very able and probably would have done well in a more nurturing environment.

@crucru the former governor decided to chip in and shoot her/himself on the foot. Sure enough someone has told him/her to stop digging. So much for trying to 'help' them.

As for the school defending themselves if they believe in their ethos and do not really have these issues then there is nothing to worry about..... I would not bet on it though. You should not worry too much about them, sure demand will never dribble. But if they are having these issues then they may as wall rise to them for once and all.

Don't really care by the way, if the OP is a journalist - and that is Trumpian way of seeding something out of nothing by the way!

@ourkidmolly The idea that self harming, mental health issues and high pressure are exclusively found in selective private schools is wrong. These problems are everywhere and in every school. Schools are struggling to deal with these issues just as society is.

They are not exclusive to these type of schools but they are far, far more prevalent.

I went to another very well known girls' school in the area and we were the first school in the country to have a dedicated eating disorders counsellor. The school was actually on the 6 o'clock news because of it.

The prevalence of eating disorders was astonishingly high - if you haven't gone to this sort of school, you won't understand. It was possibly more than half of the pupils with a severe eating disorder. I became anorexic and bulimic while I was there and still have serious eating problems now, I'm nearly 40.

I also ended up spending months in a psychiatric hospital due to self-harm. Again, I was one of many students who ended up there.

Yes ,other schools have problems too, different ones (I only saw one physical fight in my time there) but there are specific issues that are significantly more prevalent at schools like this.

OP, I am so sorry that your experience of Habs was such a bad one and that you have carried these feelings into your adult years.
As a parent of a girl at Habs, it is not at all our experience. As ChangedMyUserNameToPostThis says, both Habs schools are phenomenal and I feel an immense sense of privilege to be able to give my daughter the opportunity to go there. It is true that everything is fast paced, and that across the academic and extra curricular spectrum girls are expected to give of their best at all times. But i have found teachers encouraging, supportive and pastorally aware and open for those who need it. The girls my daughter is friendly with are lovely and there seems to be a sense of camaraderie and they are not overly competitive with eachother.
For what its worth, mental health issues can crop up in any school. I know of a young woman who went through an outstanding state comprehensive who suffered terrible mental health problems. She was probably not dissimilar to yourself - a perfectionist.
It is not exclusive to Habs, and probably not caused by Habs. It is that fact that there are large numbers of girls with these types of striving personalities at a highly academic girls' school.
My daughter is happy. Really happy. As a parent i ensure that we talk.. a lot. If i ever felt she wasn't we would do something about it.
I do wish you the very best and hope you can see the positives in the education you received one day. Having experienced both state and private sectors, I can assure you neither are perfect, but the right school for the right child is the best place to start.
For the right child, and there are many of them, Habs is a fantastic school.

@ificould
Girls are very good at not burdening their parents with most of what goes on at these schools.

@rubicon80
You are right! I think (and hope and pray) that i would know if something was up with any of my children. Sometimes i joke that we think we do the very best we can for them but they will probably tell us we got it wrong whatever we do ;) "they fuck you up, your mum and dad" Larkin...
Flippancy aside, what you say could be true of any child in any school...

@Rockylady the 'former governor' who is also an ex-pupil of the school has neither shot themselves in the foot, nor abandoned this thread - nor posted anything on behalf of the school - it is simply an anonymously posted, personal view...

I don't doubt for one moment that the OP has a negative personal experience of the school - any school with this number of pupils (must be c. 3,000 between boys and girls with preps etc.) will have those for whom the experience is negative / not ideal / neutral / good / amazing / etc. - therefore the posting of one ex-pupil doesn't paint the entire picture for all those who are there now / were there in the past...

my time at the school was a while back - last century (makes me feel old!) and the provision and care for mental-health wasn't there - there would be a matron / nurse / sick-room type figure, or you had pastoral support through your form master / mistress and the house system / heads of year / etc. - to see where those schools are now is a complete contrast - there is detailed analysis and understanding of where every pupil is at an academic level / pastoral level / etc. - there is continual monitoring of issues and phenomenal support from internal staff whose sole job is looking after mental health - to continual liaison with external agencies from social services to mental health / etc. as relevant and required...

but ultimately it is not a school's responsibility to manage all of this - the school is a part of a wider partnership and that includes other professionals and of course the child's parents / guardians - and they have the main responsibility for the child and mental health... The very nature of a successful academic school - and fee-paying is that there will be some children whose parents send them there as a way of buying their way out of taking responsibility - the expectation is that the school should pick up their gaps in their parenting - but is that fair or appropriate? It is a debate which probably has no solid conclusion, however what is clear is that the only person who can lose out in those situations is the child concerned...

we don't know the details about the OP and their parents - or what intervention there was, but we do know that bringing up children into adults is not easy for anyone - if a child is so internalising of their issues that no parent can see it - then we can't expect the school to pick it up either, if the clues are there then we should expect parents to see it - and also for a good school to observe and deal with it - either by referral to the parents / internally or externally - and the HABS schools are really very good at this - but there is no way in which they can be perfect...

ultimately the school is very clear about the style of education which will be offered:

• very academic with high expectations
• good rounded education, with expectations that children will do more than just the academic, and will grow to being rounded adults
• etc.

it is clear in open days / interviews / etc. - so if a child does not suit that atmosphere - then the match is wrong, not necessarily that the school is wrong for others - there are plenty of children for whom it is a fantastic environment which really helps them grow as individuals...

It was a nurturing school when I was there (100s of years ago) and has only improved since - it is a school I would be proud to recommend to anyone - as long as it is a match for their child - where the child would not suit, there are other options...

So, yes, the OP looks back and feels that they didn't have a happy experience - however 1000s of children every year love the school... is that therefore the fault of the school - or the parents? Was it that the school failed the OP or did the parents get the match wrong and a different school would have been better? The OP is also clear that the school did exactly what it offers - pushed her through to an Oxbridge First - that is why many parents are queuing up for an over-subscribed school with children aged 4+ to gain that outcome...

we don't need to invalidate how the OP feels - but equally the OP will have learned at Habs that in debate one needs to have a balanced view - and the simple balancing view is that the OP's experience does not reflect all experiences - nor does it mean it is a bad school...

The OP - one view
Me - ex-pupil / ex-governor (so a fairly unique view from 2 sides) - another view
1000s of current parents / ex-parents / current pupils / ex-pupils - a vast mix of views...

Changeusername as former governor, do you really think that mental health is the sole responsibility of the parents? Where is the school's accountability on all of this.....With governors like you, no wonder they have had issues.

Any school will have people who love it and others, who have had the same teachers etc will hate it.

That's very clear on the local fb page. Someone will post asking about a specific school and it will be about 50/50 between people who say "they were amazing, they helped my dc so much. There were a couple of issues and they really worked hard to sort it out" and the other 50% who say "dreadful. Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole, failed my dc."

Neither experience is wrong, simply different. In fact with all of my dc's schools I could probably highlight incidents which I could use to back up either opinion.

But I will always be suspicious of someone's motives when they post a negative review on an open forum unless opinions are being sort by others. It's exactly the same as a Daily Mail Sad face, just a different outlet.

@Rockylady. The ex-governor never said it wasn't the school's responsibility. infact @changedMyUsernameToPostThis, outlined many of the support mechanisms in place at Habs which should help/pick up on and support mental health issues. It is true that the school can not take SOLE responsibility, which is what was said.

t was a nurturing school when I was there (100s of years ago) and has only improved since - it is a school I would be proud to recommend to anyone - as long as it is a match for their child - where the child would not suit, there are other options...

Also there 100 years ago, well 90’s, and it was many things but nurturing it absolutely was not, not in any way shape or form.

As a former pupil I said in a previous post, I liked it very much and am grateful to have gone there but pastoral care was simply not on the radar in the past.

It’s a very handy get-out clause - “ah, the match wasn’t right, parents should have chosen better” to any issues. Lets the school off the hook nicely. As opposed to a school trying to learn from the poor experiences of a student.

@Rockylady - I am very clearly not saying that (though I can't prevent you or others from reading what they want into it) The schools are not perfect - no school is... the schools do have mental health provision - and did when the OP was there (I know because my time as a governor overlapped her time there!) - parents are where the buck stops - like it or not, the parents do hold ultimate responsibility on schooling for their children, they choose to put them into the school, they can choose to take them out...

the OP posts all about the negativity of the school - but makes no comment on the parent's choices when she was unwell - she says they couldn't remove her - of course they could have done, it happens up and down the country all the time - so where is parental responsibility in this - I have seen (in other schools) parents refusing to take the advice of the school on mental health matters because results / oxbridge / career is more important... Why would the OP suggest that the school was at fault and her parent's played no role? If there was an issue then there is collective responsibility... and ultimately her parents hold responsibility for the choices they made...

I make no judgement on the OP specifically - but it is important to be aware of the whole situation, and the various players - let's not castigate the school if they didn't fail - and we have no idea from the OP's posts whether they did - there will always be multiple views on any individual situation, and the OP posts merely one perspective - she validates it by it being her 'lived experience' but one pupil's 'lived experience' does not define a school - so while I am compassionate and sorry that she didn't have the ideal experience - it in no way defines the school and all other pupils...

@Answerthequestion - sorry to hear that - maybe I was very lucky - the member of staff in charge of my form, and the one in charge of my house were both superb - I suspect that even at that time experiences were very personal

I'd suggest that as recent as 20 years ago no schools (state or private) considered pastoral care / mental health?

I have a daughter at habs and am aware that over the last 4-5 years there has been an increasing focus on pastoral care - (independent school inspectorate reports on both nlcs and habs some time back hinted at the need for more attention in this area.)

The school website outlines policy that I know is in place today:
www.habsgirls.org.uk/school-life/pastoral-care-wellbeing/

Perhaps OP would like to comment whether that is an improvement on the situation 5, 6 or 7 years ago when she was heading for exams?

Yeah the governor qualified his/her statements from the first post. For whatever that is worth. You can sense the message still though. The school does not need to email her/him to stop, as it all reads now a bit strange and defensive so it sorted out itself. I am not against the school but would hate to have governors like that.

Sorry the ex governor's second post which slipped through as follows:

"... whether it works for individual pupils is another issue - and ultimately the responsibility of the parents - not the school - trying to pass that responsibility onto the school is inappropriate - the parents hold responsibility for ensuring that their children go to a school appropriate for them..."

Says it all. Good luck with governors like that!

The problem is that you cannot separate the success that a school allows from the style of teaching. It's easy to say (after you get a top 1st) you were unhappy, a friend (Cambridge 1st) says she wishes she hadn't gone to Cambridge yet it's in an amazing graduate job that her degree allowed her to access, they would not have even interviewed her otherwise.

I'm not saying that private school wasn't tough but it's a hell of a lot tougher at state school, where kids are trying to set fire to the school on a regular basis, ofsted tips up every 6 months to inspect the latest head (5 in 4 years). Mental health support is basically non existent because the senco has 20% of the school on her books, then there's the lack of attendance, the drugs, sheer poverty.

Parents are buying those a*'s so they are teaching to perfection

Hi OP, I am sorry you went through this. I had a lot of friends who went to HA actually and similarly, I went to an all girls private school on the Herts/North London border. I echo your experiences and I am disappointed and sad that there appears to be little or no improvement over the years. I am now 50, so it's been a long time for me! Because of this, there was no way I was ever going to subject my own DD to the same and have no regrets in that regard. I think your post is very worthwhile for other parents who may be considering a similar education for their child.