[Opinion] Former Habs Girl - I would not send my kids to Haberdashers' Aske's, Elstree. Here's why.

[formerhabsgirl]

Hi everyone

I've been thinking things over and feel this is the best place I can give this opinion, so that any parents thinking about sending their child to Haberdashers' Aske's School for Girls in Elstree can see it from the eyes of someone who went there, and not just a school prospectus.

I went to Habs Girls from the age of 11 to 18 and left relatively recently. I went on to Oxford and graduated with a first. Last week, a friend's Mum asked my opinion on Habs, as a colleague was thinking about sending their daughter there. The opinions I give below are my own and in no way affiliated with the school’s.

My experience of Habs Girls was that it was awful for pastoral support. I went from a straight A* student to barely being able to hand in essays. A teacher in a senior position asked me to come to her office and proceeded to tell me that if her friends, who she told me were barristers/lawyers etc, could function and go to work, even though they had previously been suicidal, then I could finish my essays. I also am pretty sure (from diary entries and my own memory) that another kept a girl in the school, who had an eating disorder at the time, waiting outside her office for the whole day while there were school-wide celebrations occurring (I can't go into much more detail here, otherwise I might reveal more than I want to). She felt so ashamed and unhappy (the girl, not the teacher). In my memory (and I kept several diaries detailing the events, which I have since checked over to refresh things) she never asked me how I could have gone from a student with top grades to a student barely being able to function. All I remember is blame, blame, blame, and criticism when I tried to explain myself. Another teacher made fun of the fact that I used to apologise all the time for handing in work late, without asking me why this had suddenly started happening.

I had never a 'problem student.' In fact, I was made a prefect before I started being ill. However, when I experienced difficulties that not my fault, I was shouted at by one teacher in front of a year 8 class when I asked for a day-long essay extension due to illness. While I completely understand that everything is subjective, I clearly remember events like these happening and, from the perspective of someone in their twenties, who has gone through the system, I struggle to think how this could have been anything other than being… well, really bad at an aspect of one’s job.

I went to Oxford and achieved a first class degree. Those who know I went to Habs Girls (relatives etc.) have since asked me how I would credit Habs Girls in my overall success. My overwhelming memory of Habs Girls was how critical it was when it came to grades. My mother confirmed a memory I am about to share, as we both went along to a parent's evening in year 9 to talk about GCSE options - she remembered being as shocked as I was. The headmistress gave a speech, during which she was talking about whether to take 9 or 10 GCSEs. She said – and my mother remembers this too – “remember, it is far better to get 9 As rather than 9 As and 1 A.”

I believe that Habs Girls limits its students by promoting perfectionism. I cannot overstate this enough. There is such a pervading atmosphere of perfectionism in that place. I feel like a lot of parents act like it’s wonderful when students get straight As in GCSEs and A-Levels. They forget or choose to overlook the fact there is often a great deal of fear that is instilled in students about NOT getting those top grades. I have been around girls who have had panic attacks about the possibility of getting a B. There were girls in tears because they ‘only’ got 8 As and 1A during GCSE day. Girls who think they’re not good enough.

Why am I saying this now? Why did I not complain? Because I wasn’t old enough to realise that the teacher(s) I’ve mentioned had committed a gross error and had been (again, in my opinion) terrible at their jobs. I didn’t stand up to myself because mental health awareness was not present at Habs, and was not made a priority. I was a teenage girl, up against people who never asked me what was wrong, but instead told me off for not achieving. When I was at school, I believed that everything was my fault. I used to cry and cry and wonder how everything had gone so wrong. Having been to the place where ‘everyone wanted to go to’ – ie Oxbridge - and having had a great time there, I can now say wholeheartedly that the problem was not mine. They did not do enough to help me, and to help other girls who had similar or very different problems. Even when I was at freakin’ OXFORD, it was less of a perfectionist place than Habs Girls, in my experience.

I wonder, if anyone reads this, if I’ll get the response ‘it’s not for everyone: some people can hack it, and some people can’t.’ To this I would say: I got straight As and a first from Oxford. I never had any problem with Oxford whatsoever – compared to Habs Girls, it was honestly a lot easier to cope with, mentally. So I don’t really think the argument that ‘oh it was okay for her at uni because she had only one subject to concentrate on’ holds much weight, because I did well when I was doing a range of subjects. When I was at school (on paper only haha) I was arguably ‘the ideal Habs Girl’ – sporty, A grades across the board, Oxbridge – and yet I was treated really badly when I needed support and empathy. If I could hack Oxford and flourish in it, but me and several other girls had mental breakdowns/pulled all-nighters in part because of fear over not being ‘good enough…’ then I don’t think the fault really lies with my personality or how I handle things.

I want to give a shout out to the nice teachers who did go there – because there were some. There were some lovely and kind teachers who only wanted to help. They’re not being paid enough! But I’m afraid that several nice teachers do not reverse the really bad atmosphere that pervades the school. Even though I am sure some of the not-so-great teachers might have left, I would be very worried about sending anyone there, because of the ruthless perfectionism. If I have children of my own, then I would much rather prioritise students’ happiness than their grades. Habs Girls, in my opinion, is not worth the money. I am now considering going to counselling because I still have awful memories from that time. Sorry to be blunt, but I wish my parents had been able to see something like this before they'd decided to send me there.

Love

A Former Habs Girl

I think it is worth mentioning what a huge amount of pressure teachers in schools like that are to produce those kinds of results - and much of this pressure is from parents.

Where were your parents in all this?

@changedmyusernametopostthis

Re your post
"there will always be those (parents) who want a school to deliver results at any cost, so the concept of a school delivering results is not in itself a bad thing...

whether it works for individual pupils is another issue - and ultimately the responsibility of the parents - not the school - trying to pass that responsibility onto the school is inappropriate - the parents hold responsibility for ensuring that their children go to a school appropriate for them...

for this school specifically though I think we need to be cautious not to label the school because of how it has not been a perfect match for a specific student(s) - ......etc

If this is the ethos of the school, and I was looking at the school, then I would be VERY worried. Not sure you are doing them a favour.

This attitude of "if you don't like the way we do things here then you should leave" and "if it did not work then it is parents responsibility to sound the alarm/ to pull them out, not school" (!!!!! Why parents only? ) which is what reads between lines does not show any 1) ability or willingness to listen, 2) ability or willingness to learn from experience, 3) ability or willingness to work together with students and parents, 4) ability or willingness to lean from mistakes and EVOLVE as fast as possible and situations require.

Sorry but if they get regularly young people with mental problems which are life changing, because of pressure at school, then they ARE doing something wrong - even if the failure is with their "ejection" procedures, which I am sure are well oiled if kid does not perform academically but not so well oiled if pastoral care is not enough for the kid.

Seriously changedmyname? Sounds super weak and any school with this ethos should be avoided. So I am not sure you are doing them any favours, (and did you say you were a governor a few years ago? Maybe you were part of the problem, you are conflicted and whatever you say must be taken with a pinch of salt if not ignored) they must be begging for you to go away from this thread and stop digging.

I went to Habs. From the age of 4... my dad wanted me to go to an 'independent girls school'.

This was probably before your time there, yes there were crap teachers, who were horrible bullies, but there were also great teachers there...
However I was treated as a second class student because I wasn't aiming for oxbridge...

I got fairly average grades but I got into a good uni because of the 'Habs' name... which if I had gone elsewhere I don't think I would have done.
I wouldn't send my daughter there though.

I could be wrong OP but I’m assuming that you aren’t currently a parent? Which means you’ve gone to the effort of researching where best to post this, creating an account etc. I’m sorry you had a rotten time & having had a not very great experience at boarding school myself for 4 years I do know how the wrong school for a teenage girl can really impact your confidence at a crucial time when you are developing your sense of self. However, as others have said, your experience won’t be across the board - for some of your peers these will have been the best years of their lives. The school now at least 4 years on is a different one to the school you attended - teachers change & by the sounds of it they’re addressing mental health with more seriousness. This is still quite obviously something hanging over you but you are not the teenage girl you were and rather than looking backwards I’d consign it to the past and get on with your future. You’ve got the tools to make it a bright one!

“It's interesting that despite all you criticise the teachers about here, you were still successful enough to get a place at Oxford and achieve a first class degree. So they must have been doing something right? “

Plenty of young people get to Oxbridge and do well despite their schooling or home experiences.

It is possible to receive a good education AND be supported to be happy.

Op I haven't read the entire thread but I just wanted to say I am sorry to hear about your experiences at school. I have just pulled my 12 year old daughter out of grammar school for the exact reasons you talk about - the pressure to perform. I have chosen a less academic but much more nurturing private school because in my opinion my priority is that she graduates with tonnes of confidence rather than straight A*s. Reading your post it reiterates to me we made the right decision. I know some others have been critical of the opportunties you have had - but I just wanted to tell you I hear you and get what you mean that your mental health is much more important. Your parents wanted the best for you and did what they thought was right to get you into a good career position and it seems that has been achieved. But there was an emotional cost to this in hindsight that looking back maybe your parents or you would have done things differently had you all known what the school was going to do to your mental health.

While there is a broader conversation here about super selective schools and their impact on the mental health of teenagers which is definitely worth having, I’m surprised none of you aren’t a bit more concerned at the OPs current state of happiness. This is a (presumably) early twenty something woman who has gone to the effort of researching a suitable site, creating an account, venting her obviously rather horrible experience and essentially warning parents off the school she went too. It doesn’t read like a post of someone who is dealing very well in her current life if she felt the need to go to this effort. It will already be a different school as dynamics change and not the environment she experienced. We can either choose to be defined by our bad experiences or not, without wishing to seem un-empathetic to the OP, it does read to me like something to move on from and not to re-open wounds by writing posts like this. We can choose to hang on to bad experiences or not, generally it’s healthier not to!

I went to a very similar nearby school from the age of 11 to 16, over 20 years ago.

My experiences echo yours. I was academically very high achieving (top of most subjects even in that school) but my mental health did not survive the toxic atmosphere.

I ended up in a psychiatric hospital at 16 with very very severe self-harm and an eating disorder that I still struggle with daily now, at nearly 40 years old.

My own daughter is approaching secondary age and I wouldn't send her to a school like that if you paid me.

Reading your post as a former Habs girl I am fascinated by your post. Everything you say resonates with me. I do think that the school takes pastoral care and mental health seriously now and certainly that’s my understanding from friends with girls there. However, the school is symptomatic of high achieving girls schools. When you have a school of superbright competitive girls it feeds the pressure and behaviour to be perfect in every way and mental health issues in these schools are huge regardless of the work the school puts in.

Much of that comes from the girls themselves and a lot of it comes from home, especially in families where academic achievement is valued above all else.

I actually liked Habs, I was distinctly average and very much felt, like previous poster that I was overlooked because I wasn’t a top student and I certainly didn’t have any understanding that I was far from stupid. But I do value my time there and I’m happy I went.

It was a very hard decision not to send my kids there. My husband put his foot down and in hindsight I’m pleased that he did. I feel strongly that Habs is the right school for some children, those who are either extremely resilient or those who are brilliant but mentally strong.

We chose a local outstanding non selective state school and it was hard for me because I felt I wasn’t doing the best for the children by not giving Habs a chance when we could afford the fees. However, it was far and away the best decision.

My eldest has today got a straight run of 8’s and 7’s for GCSE. Yes, the 8’s May have become 9’s and the 7’s become 8’s but most importantly, they have done it by being in an environment where success is highly valued but comes in all shapes and sizes and they’ve been in the top 1/3 of the year and have a strong mental health. The state school sends a good 15 a year to Oxbridge is I have no concerns that this wouldn’t be supported, they’re not interested, but the infrastructure is there for them.

HABS is an amazing school but I do worry that parents get so sidetracked by a Habs education that they don’t always consider the possible implications of that environment

Op it sounds shit. I have no idea what some of the posters on this thread are going on about.

I absolutely recognise your experience OP. From different perspectives. Private schools are so destructive for society- for children on both sides of the segregation. I wish they published mental health stats in the league tables rather than just grades.

Good for you for posting this ... jolly brave and I hope it helps a lot of other people as well as you. I had a hideous education 50 years ago but I have moved on and that's what you will need to do if if Habs is not to hold you in its clutches. For what it's worth, one of my children got a scholarship there and we chose a selective state instead, thank goodness. Huge generalisation but can't say I like what I see coming out of there ...

Op, thanks for sharing your experiences, I'm so sorry you've had a rough time of it. It may be trite, but please try to be kind to yourself now and focus on the positives you gained from your experiences? Eg do you have good friends from your time there?

From my own perspective, I'd say the perfectionist tendencies, anxiety etc may be a girl thing and the lack of support may be a school thing? I went to a non-selective state comp, then a selective sixth form. At no time did anyone ask about my (poor) mental health, home life etc. At sixth form it was very obvious I had an eating disorder and then had almost 2 terms off school, but no teachers addressed it with me at all. So whilst I never had the school pressure you describe, I still felt (feel) like a failure... I also didn't reach my academic potential and I wonder if I'd have done better at a better school where there was more academic support.

Hello everyone - thank you for your comments. I especially want to thank the people who have listened and empathised. I am very aware that I was in a privileged position to be able to go there in a first place, but I think it is important to call out practices that I believe are toxic and harmful, regardless of where someone has gone to school.

To the school governor/former school governor who wrote in, thank you for illustrating my point so well. My purpose of this thread was to give an 'other side' to all of this. By saying things like 'I suspect there was... ;) [mental health provision],' and giving blanket statements about girls being generally happy there, you are denying my lived experience, as well as the bad experiences of the girls I have spoken to that have since come out the other side. I believe that you can't speak for all of the girls who go there, just as I can't. I went there relatively recently compared to you, and I believe that being a school governor is a very different experience to being a teenage girl trying to do the right thing in a school with the atmosphere of 'if you can't cope with it, you're not the right fit.' (As a side note, I believe this is a toxic way to think).

Thank you to the people who are concerned with the state of my well-being now. I am happy to report that I have made the first step of recognising that I need to address some of the things that I think were completely sub-par (and in my opinion, not worth paying 100k for). I never want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. Like I say, I went to Oxford and had a lovely time. However, the scars remain from my time at Habs. I still get flashbacks of being shouted at in front of people and not listened to; panic attacks thinking back to that time that come out of nowhere, and nightmares. If someone reads this and scoffs and thinks 'she has nothing to get panic attacks about', then I am happy to hear that you have never experienced mental health difficulties like this, and that you did not experience the things I did. But my priority isn't pleasing people. My priority is telling the truth of how I believe I experienced things.

Habs can be a good place to study if you never experience any problems, I believe, but please bear in mind that I was a high-achiever who was on track to do 'well' - i.e. A*s, Oxbridge, and when I had difficulties, I feel these were exacerbated by being blamed and criticised instead of listened to. There are friends of mine who achieved almost exactly the same grades as me, who went to private/good state schools that were not as academically focused. Just something to think about.

OP I don't think your experience was unusual. I too went to a top achieving girls school although I achieved top grades it has had a lasting negative effect on my mental health. I would never have considered sending my dd there. I think speaking out about your experience is a good thing to do to help others make informed choices and as impetus for change.

Unfortunately it's also true that mental health support is poor in most schools, and in society in general we have a huge way to go.

@Snog I am sorry to hear about your experience. Thank you for recognising what I am trying to do!

I agree that mental health support is poor in most schools, and about society having a long way to go. However, if parents are paying 100k to send their children to school, then I don't think there is any excuse to not have more infrastructure in place - Habs certainly has enough money for it.

I sympathise with you Op. However, I would have thought that it is the responsibility of the parents to ensure that they choose the best school for their child.
I have three children who attended very different schools . One attended a top grammar school, one a top performing state school and the other a very small independent school with fantastic pastoral care. They have all excelled because the school they attend/ attended was right for them

@areyoubeingserviced thank you for your comment. People have talked about parents knowing what's best for their children quite a bit on here.

I was high-flying and achieved A*s across the board and was far from a problem student/never struggled academically, so my parents thought I would suit Habs. Years passed, I got ill and was not supported correctly/given any leeway, and by then it was too late to take me out because I was in the middle of an important couple of years.

My point is that I don't think my parents, or the parents of the other girls, are the people to blame here. Mine wanted the best for me and for me to be happy, and when I got to the point where I was traumatised and unhappy, it was too late to pull me out. Habs, in my mind, broadcasts the message of 'your girl will excel academically and also be a well-adjusted person by the end of their time here,' and actually, in my experience and the experience of others, it can leave some people feeling really terrible - and no parent would know that unless the child was in the system.

Now you've got your voice out there i do think for your own sake, time to move on and sadly there will be children not just at your old school but up and down the country who will suffer I'll effects from a highly pressurised environment. I do really sympathise with you - as above i had 4 really traumatic years at a boarding school on the other side of the world to my parents and there was no going home at the end of the day. But you do need to put this to bed and get past it - if airing your feelings on here is he!ping, great! But once you come off start putting that scared teenage girl behind you and create a stronger version of yourself - that's pretty much what I did.Don't live as a victim of your past and crack on with who you are today. Personally I found travel & living in different countries in my twenties really help me understand that actually I'm nobodies victim and bloody capable! You sound a bright & self aware woman and history seems to be dragging you down. Get off here & go fly!

Bloody autocorrect! Ill not I'll

@SJane48S Thank you! And yes, I didn't intend on being on this thread for long at all. I think I've said what I needed to say, for anyone who was interested in listening and for anyone who needed to hear alternative opinions about that school. I was very worried about doing this, but even though I've had some not-so-nice comments, I've also had some supportive ones - thank you to those people, for understanding.

For anyone who is browsing, I hope this has helped in some way. I will keep checking the thread over the next few days/my PMs in case anyone wants some genuine advice.

This is an interesting thread. I wonder what you do for a living, OP. Like others, I also wonder what it is that makes a 20-something with a First from Oxford come on here to say this. Having said that, I hope that things get easier for you.

I have noticed that you have said that you rather that’s gone to a state school (with tutoring) rather than, say, a less pressured independent school. I know that none of us can really know the other’s experience - having gone to Habs, you won’t have experienced a comprehensive. In the same way, I have never been to a school like Habs.

I will say that a comprehensive is not necessarily the super low pressure experience that you may think it would be - the challenges are different but they are still there. Being known as the “clever one” creates an expectation that you will always know the answer. If a state school gets great results, chances are that there is pressure to achieve.

Being in a very mixed ability class isn’t necessarily relaxing. I remember being told to help another pupil (who wasn’t particularly motivated and tended to be disruptive) at the expense of my own work - then getting a hard time because that person still didn’t seem to be making much progress. There were times that a teacher would just lose control of the class (which was usually boring and sometimes a bit frightening). I wouldn’t say that being in a mixed ability class gave me any particular insight into people with different backgrounds (which is something that I see on here quite often). My school life was far more relaxing once we were put into different sets.

"This is an interesting thread. I wonder what you do for a living, OP. Like others, I also wonder what it is that makes a 20-something with a First from Oxford come on here to say this. Having said that, I hope that things get easier for you"

That is super rude @Crucru. You may still have a job and try to figure out how to handle and deal with your past. Which is quite good really, instead of ignoring the issue and getting buried at "work".

I actually wondered if the OP is a journalist. This doesn’t mean that the OP is a troll or negate anything she’s written. I can imagine that a First from Oxford would be a real asset to a journalist. The way the first post was written reminds me a little of opinion pieces in the Guardian.