Unhelpful school mentor?

[followthefairytalexx]

I am doing some experience days before my PGCE in September in the school I will be teaching in. I've only had 4 days of experience one last week and one this week. My mentor is nice but she makes me feel like I'm a burden. She doesn't eat lunch with me and doesn't show me how to do stuff and criticises everything I do like the lunch I bring or me not being able to find my way around the school yet which is crazy I've only been there 4 days! I am scared to ask her for help now, she seems like she doesn't want to be a mentor and I feel like a burden already. All of the staff make me feel like that.

Sorry that should be two last week, two this week.

The school are doing you a favour, your mentor has been asked to babysit you when she has a million other things to do.

Don’t expect her to eat lunch with you as well.

@noblegiraffe I dont expect her to eat lunch with me I was just using it as a sign of being ignored? and yes I get that but obviously I would like to feel welcomed and included.

It’ll probably be different in September when you’re actually there with a purpose and a timetable.

she makes me feel like I'm a burden

You are. She is not being paid for this, probably given no time, and you create an enormous amount of extra work. Those of us who do it (usually) do so because someone was kind enough to do it for us and we want future teachers to be competent.

I would like to feel welcomed and included

You are training to be a teacher. You need to learn to feel shat on :-)

Seriously this is a brilliant job but it is often fucking tough and thankless.

I am scared to ask her for help now

You don't ask your mentor for help with stuff you can get from other people e.g. navigating school/what the school day is like- you ask someone who is not busy, office staff or a kid.

You do need to ask a lot of questions and you can't afford to hold back. You even need to be a nuisance- this is expected. What you don't do is ask the same question twice or need hand holding. Try to be as independent as possible, but this will still involve a lot of asking the right questions. You will get criticised a lot and you will fail a lot- that's OK, we all did the same.

Spread the questions around, listen to the answers and accept when someone says they are busy. Buy your mentor a nice gift when you leave.

It will feel different when you are there with a timetable, including a mentor period. If you don’t know your way around, then get a copy of the map of the school and use it.
What do you need to be shown? If this is just experience, then it is a chance to know the school and the department and you won’t need to be shown much. If you have a list of things to find out from your uni/SCITT/teaching alliance and she is busy, arrange a time with her to go through your list. Write down your questions, work out whether they are urgent (need an answer now) semi-urgent (by the end of the day) not urgent - can wait until our next meeting. But don’t be afraid to ask, we’ve all been there.

A few years ago I gave up a successful job where I was in a senior position to do my PGCE. There were quite a few reasons why I gave up after three months but my mentor definitely was a big factor in my decision. Like you I felt like a burden didn’t show me how to do anything and endlessly criticised me bearing in mind she was meant to be helping me become an effective teacher she was one of the rudest people I’ve ever met (others were shocked by the way she spoke to me) and trust me I’ve met numerous rude people over the years. I couldn’t have cared less whether or not she ate lunch with me or not and through trial and error I found my way round the school but she was a shockingly bad mentor. I knew within a few days that it was not going to work and I complained to the SCITT but to no avail. But I can’t urge you strongly enough to raise your concerns if her attitude continues hopefully it won’t not fall in deaf ears.
I just want to add that in my job I have been a sign off mentor for many years to numerous students which I don’t get paid for, am given no extra time and it is an enormous amount of work and my work is as busy as a teacher but I would be put through a formal disciplinary if I spoke and treated my students the way my mentor treated me. I also don’t care how many times they ask the same questions and am always happy to hand hold I want to be part of training competent dedicated staff and who feel they have joined the right profession and when in the future they mentor students they will remember what makes a good mentor.

The school is not doing the OP a favour. She’s doing them a favour by wanting to be a teacher. My mum always says “good manners cost nothing”. This mentor and the one described by Forgetthecareerchange might need to review their attitude. I’m somewhat appalled by the general lack of professionalism and rudeness that comes across in posts.

In another career my DD was effectively mentored by three people, each for 4 months, for a year. They showed great professional dedication to helping someone join their profession and they were definitely busier than teachers! It is important that new recruits are welcomed and the schools should insist staff follow agreed guidelines for mentoring. I cannot think why anyone would put up with being treated like this. Call it out OP - it’s simply not good enough.

She’s doing them a favour by wanting to be a teacher.

If someone phones up asking for work experience then it is not them doing the workplace a favour by turning up and learning from them.

OP is not a trainee yet.

When I was a HoD, I often turned down requests like this. I love mentoring trainees. I get loads from it, and it never feels like a burden. Work experience is different. What are you doing while you are there?

I don’t think it matters that the OP is currently doing work experience in fact given the dire state of teacher numbers including the numbers who drop out of their PGCE then I would have thought schools would be bending over backwards and rolling out the red carpet to those doing work experience.. I did quite a bit of work experience or observation days in 4/5 different schools before starting my PGCE and everyone I met (not my mentor) couldn’t have been nicer they were happy to answer loads of questions and all had lunch with me. It was because I’d had such a positive experiences that I did the PGCE. OP I can tell you that it’s not just you and who experience this a number of my fellow PGCE students felt the same (and this caused some to drop out) and I spoke to others from other SCITTs who made similar comments. Teachers work in this weird environment where the are regularly being monitored for poor performance and being criticised they feel totally over burdened with work and therefore many seems to pass all of this into their mentees giving then little or no support and believing that negative criticism is the way forward.
I hope you have better luck with you training than me and my fellow student the drop out rate is often pretty horrific.

The OP says the mentor is in the school she will be teaching in. It’s not a random “can I come in and observe please?”

The posts on MN from teachers are often quite aggressive and say how awful the job is. If they behave like this then I’m not surprised. It’s hardly supportive or even remotely encouraging to others. They put people off and I’m surprised anyone wants to do it! Who wants to spend hours with people like this?

I found teachers to be very negative and aggressive. Frankly I grew tired of hearing how hard they worked, as if they are different to everyone else. Or their endless moaning about holidays, the “I haven’t had a holiday since coming back in Sept” line began to get irritating. My DH like many only gets four weeks a year he hadn’t had a holiday since June and his next holiday was the compulsory 8 days he takes at Xmas! Or “we have to take our holiday during the school holidays” line. Really hadn’t you worked that out before you started the training/job? In my job where annual leave during school holidays is very limited one of the biggest complaints from staff is that they can’t take holiday during the school holidays when their children are at home be it for an actual holidays and child care.
I’m not disputing teachers work hard that’s it’s stressful or that they are poorly paid or that their is endless paperwork and I wouldn’t do it for all the money in the world but back in the real world many people work as hard if not harder are equally poorly paid, are also up to their eyeballs in pointless paperwork and have as or more stressful jobs. But In my now extensive experience of a wide variety of number of jobs in a wide variety of settings most workers are not as aggressive unsupportive and frankly unpleasant as many teachers seem to be.

I’ve found my colleagues to be brilliantly humoured and endlessly supportive over the years. I know the mentors in my department were lavished with gifts and cards when our trainees just left (as was I as they took one of my classes).

We have had issues in the past where sometimes trainees have come in expecting the red carpet rolled out, like they are doing us a favour - the massive bursary given to maths trainees doesn’t help with this perception. Trainees cause a lot of work for schools and individual teachers and it’s not really a job for people who need to be babysat and told they’re marvellous.
It can also be very difficult for people who have had senior roles in other careers to find themselves busted to the bottom of the rankings, not knowing what they are doing and yes, that they’re a bit rubbish (everyone is a bit rubbish for the first couple of years at least).

The kids are the priority, so yes, you’ll need to hit the ground running.

Noble whilst I totally agree the those coming from successful careers in senior positions can find being at the “bottom of the rankings* very difficult. They like everyone else regardless of their ranking are entitled to commonal garden courtesy and respect from those they work with.
I have mentored many students over the years those starting out in their careers, career changers and those from overseas. Some are amazing most are very good and a few are frankly hopeless. Like teachers we have another “priority” we are understaffed and I work in a faced paced stressful environment, and we don’t volunteer to be mentor it’s expected of us. As a teacher I’m pretty sure you are aware that the frankly hopeless will never learn in a negative environment, we work really hard to support them, if necessary we handhold and baby sit we do this because their university expects us to do this and because everyone should be given a chance to achieve. Some blossom and go from being hopeless to amazing, other become very good and a few remain hopeless and either leave or are asked to leave. It’s sad when the latter occurs but at least we know we tried to help.
Those who change their often successful careers to train to be teachers have taken a very big decision few if any have done it on a whim they have researched teaching carefully. Yes the bursary is an incentive how else could you even consider undertaking the training as in my case and in the case of many others it was significantly less than was being earned in a previous job. Most IME are really keen to make it work, I doubt they are really expecting the red carpet to be rolled out but to be treated as a third class citizen by their mentors and others with little or nothing to offer to teaching is very demoralising. I personally don’t think I would ever have made a good teacher, I realised this within a few weeks of starting because the general ethos in schools just didn’t suit me, and my mentor was always telling me how useless I was and I was inclined to agree! But many who like me came from another occultation and then like me left after a few months I think would have made excellent and enthusiastic teachers, they didn’t have a problem with the general ethos, but they did need the right level of support and yes maybe baby sitting and hand holding in the beginning but surely teachers at the very least should view it as short term pain for long term gain?
IMO Teachers need to change their attitudes. As I’ve said the attitude the Op experienced is in my experience sadly not uncommon. You have a staffing a crisis in teaching, career changers have a lot to offer if you fail to embrace this your staffing crisis will only worsen. Over 2/3rds of those starting their PGCE with me left before the end of the training most were career changers this is an appalling figures. They were mainly in shortage subjects yes on big bursaries so a total waste of money as well. I have done a little research into this area since and I’ve found this is not uncommon, most complain of poor support especially when they started. Maybe career changers do need a little extra support and help in beginning is that a bad thing if with time they become effective teachers? Of course the extra support should not just come from their mentors but their training provider as well (safely missing in my experience) I genuinely believe like my frankly useless trainees given time and the right support and let’s face a mentor is the best person to give this most would trainees would become at the very least “very good”. Those who don’t and then leave mentors and mentor will know that everything had been done to to try and help them achieve the required standard.

”mentors and mentor” = mentor and mentee.!

In a profession that’s on its knees, quite frankly what is not needed is any more ‘Teachers just need to....’

Noble I suspect it’s attitude that many career changers find an anathema. Also you may find this hard to believe but teaching is not the only profession on its knees but others professions are learning that If they are to tackle this problem they are going to have stop saying this is how things are done we don’t want to change etc and start thinking how can we do things differently to attract new staff and get ourselves out of this crisis?
I work as part of a large professional multi disciplinary team, all of us our “on our knees” staffing or lack of it is a major problem that if it continues will have disastrous effect. Some professions have not been keen to embrace change having had a long history of “we’ve always done it this way” or “it was good enough for me when I was training” ethos but that gets you no where, in fact it just exacerbates the problem so w’ve all had to embrace change and in fact are expected too by our employers and by our governing bodies. This includes how we treat our trainees we are moving away from the one size fits all learning system when the vast majority of trainees were 18 year undergraduates with little life/work experience we now have offer flexible tailored learning take into consideration people different styles of learning, acknowledge that some come with useful skills learned in other jobs and that many are juggling a home life as well. All professions now offer extra help and support to all who struggle (for whatever reason). Like teachers we are not paid extra to do it and often do it in our own time or whilst juggling very demanding jobs but none of us and that includes teachers can afford to loose to many of our trainees.

I knew within a few days that it was not going to work and I complained to the SCITT but to no avail.

Frankly I grew tired of hearing how hard they worked, as if they are different to everyone else. Or their endless moaning about holidays, the “I haven’t had a holiday since coming back in Sept” line began to get irritating.

I would have thought schools would be bending over backwards and rolling out the red carpet to those doing work experience

I found teachers to be very negative and aggressive.

IMO Teachers need to change their attitudes.

Forgetthecareerchange I'm sorry you failed your PGCE. I know from experience that it's a difficult undertaking and heartbreaking to fail. Teaching is very language based, so it can be harder when English is not your first language.

I'm surprised you think that all members of a particular profession are negative and aggressive and need to change their attitude. It's seems unlikely to me- I have found teachers to be as varied as any other group.

I’ve met numerous rude people over the years

I wonder whether there is some other reason why you found so many people to be rude? Was there a common factor in all these interactions?

I work in a profession where Jo Public seems to think it’s acceptable to very rude when things are not going their way usually through no ones fault . Now in a senior position I encounter less rudeness because as is often the case rude people back down when someone in authority becomes involved but my junior colleagues and when I too was in a junior position had to or have to endlessly put up with rudeness.
You are right donquixote I shouldn’t tar all teachers with the same brush I offer sincere apologies to all those teachers out there who don’t treat their trainees badly and I met some great teachers who were lovely people who were keen to help but without a doubt there are a significant number out there who know no more about mentoring and how to treat trainees than I know about nuclear physics. I found it extraordinary that teachers don’t know how to teach and support their own trainees. Maybe it’s because of the age difference? Adult trainees don’t wish to be spoken to like secondary school children and the older you are and the more life experiences you’ve have the harder you will find this in comparison with a 22 year old straight out of uni.
Lastly it wasn’t heart breaking to fail to complete the training I simply returned to my old career, I quickly realised I’d made the wrong choice even before I got into a classroom, we live and learn I’d given it a go. It also opened my eyes to what actually goes on in schools (I have two children) I often say to friends “you have no idea what actually goes on” The amount of lessons being taken by cover staff who have no teaching qualifications or knowledge of the subject they were teaching and the sadly the many tedious boring lessons that I observed in many schools, sometimes I used to look around at the pupils they were bored with the lesson as was I. Ni wonder pupils are disillusioned and fed up with with school and the obsessive focus on exam preparation from very early on (not the teachers fault). I often read on here that children in private schools are spoon fed to answer exam questions this may be the case I can’t comment but I saw endless spoon feeding in the state sector.
The ones I felt sorry for those who were career changing due to redundancy etc or had given up good jobs to pursue a dream of being a teacher and we’re going to find it hard to get back into their d jobs. Many like me left within a few months disillusioned and demoralised many were very upset it’s hard to admit you’ve made the wrong choice (as I said over 2/3rds of the cohort failed to finish I’ve spoken to other trainer teachers who recount similar numbed) and then to not be effortlessly walking into another job.
Perhaps recruitment of trainer teachers needs to be closely scrutinised. It’s inevitable that the large bursaries attached to some subject will attract some who are just doing it for the money we had two on our course who openly admitted this, some one dropped out but deliberately delayed leaving to get the double payment in February or others waited for the payment at the beginning of a month and left the next day. Another finished the training just about passed but had never had any intention of staying they lived with their parents paid a small amount for their keep and had managed to save £15000 a deposit on a flat this is what they’d planned to do. I find this unacceptable. I don’t know how you weed out those people but for those who genuinely want to be teachers but realise they’ve made a mistake I’m don’t know if it’s possible to improve selection to weed then out this save a lot of time wasting on both sides.

If they are to tackle this problem they are going to have stop saying this is how things are done we don’t want to change etc and start thinking how can we do things differently to attract new staff and get ourselves out of this crisis?

What is needed is proper funding, resources and time to do our jobs.

Telling teachers to slap on a smile and do even more isn’t going to keep them in the profession, let alone retain trainees when they realise what the deal is.

Teachers are not the only public service that has very significant funding resource problems talk to social workers those working in child protection are underfunded and there is a massive e staffing crisis or how about those in the NHS both are “on their knees”. But you like everyone else in the public sector has to be realistic there will be no significant extra funding in the near future (I’m not saying this is right) or I suspect in the medium future. You cannot say because there’s not enough resources/money I’m not going to change my attitude to trainees/or think how we can do things differently. Surely your just shooting yourself in the foot? In my area we have a staffing crisis at the very least as significant as teaching and if the press are to be believed more significant. This is affecting trained and trainees my seniors have been forced to change their recruitment policy, we’ve just introduced flexible hours, hours per annum instead of hours per week, extensive and free in house training, golden hellos etc. overtime and incentives to those who work beyond their contracted hours even 3-4 years ago this was unheard of. Of course no manager wants to do this they want full time staff who cheerfully work their allotted hours happily take holiday out of school holidays work extra hours for nothing and fund their own training in their own time but ultimately if you retain trainees and trained and wish to attract and retain staff in a world where there are more vacancies than staff to fill them then they have no choice. Staff in general also realise that if you want to retain staff/colleagues and get your trainees to want to come back you have to treat each other decently. I’m already trying to persuade my current trainee to come back selling her the benefits of working for us, I recently interviewed a trainee near the end of her training she had three interviews and would be in a position to choose the job she wanted (I’m aware that this isn’t how teaching interviews work) as much as she was selling herself to us we were selling ourselves to her, and we’re delighted when she chose us she said “ I loved it when I was a student with you everyone was so lovely and helpful, unlike when I was a student at X (who’d also offered her a job). So maybe teachers need to “slap on a smile” and treat your trainees well and not go around making them feel as if you are doing “them a favour” (do you really think this noble I do hope not) or that they are a burden.

A PGCE student last year was holding a job offer from my school, went to another interview and they also offered them a job. PGCE student chose my school ‘because the maths team are so lovely and supportive’. So y’know, I can retain trainees and hack teaching.

Your tone is incredibly patronising and dismissive of teachers. I can see why you rubbed up your mentors the wrong way.

I didn’t say that schools were doing trainees a favour. Schools get money for trainees (this can lead to schools taking on too many trainees, beyond the capacity of the department to support them properly). But the OP is not a trainee yet, the school isn’t being paid, and letting her in to do school experience is a favour.

In September, the school will have a programme set up for trainees, the mentor will have guidelines to follow as to how to fill their time. But now it is just another unexpected thing to sort out.

@noblegiraffe I am a trainee I have been interviewed and secured a place at the school starting in september. They wanted me to do 4 days experience in the school before I start in september.

starting in september.

That’s the key bit.