Small disaster with GCSE options for next year

[JoanCallamezzo]

DD (yr 9) was told yesterday that school can’t accommodate her GCSE options now that they have worked out the timetable – she can’t do Geography, History and Art together and has to drop one. She loves (and is pretty good at) all 3 but is most committed to Art and Geography, so it looks like she’ll have to drop History. However, the only alternatives she’s been offered are Music (she doesn’t even play an instrument), Photography (not allowed in combination with Art), 3 vocational non-GCSE courses (Hospitality, Child Development, Health - none of which are right for DD) and Sociology (which is the only viable option but DD has zero interest in it and I feel it is quite limiting as a subject compared to the breadth and scope offered by History).

We are deeply disappointed and feel that DD, who works hard, and was on track for good grades in all three of her choices, is being let down quite badly by the school. She's really upset and stressed. It is being presented as a fait accompli and DD was told she had to decide by today (we have asked for more time and for a meeting to discuss.)

Has anybody managed to resolve a situation like this or do we just have to suck it up and find a way to help DD feel happy about Sociology and less sad about dropping History?! Any ammunition for our meeting next week would be great, as would opinions on Sociology over History at GCSE!

I would also like to point out that the recent cull/change of specs at GCSE has meant there are no longer 'easy' subjects/qualifications that was the old mantra (even though there really wasn't, the GCSE IT was difficult to get high grades in the coursework given the amount of evaluation that was needed)

Your eldest isnt dds bf is he

Oh no, i see you say IT

Sounds positive OP.
The posts about students with a single BTEC are irrelevant to general advice about GCSE options.
For students aiming for A levels they need sufficient core academic (facilitating ) GCSEs to keep their options open for A levels and beyond. Those core GCSEs should of course follow their academic interests (but also take into consideration that those interests may change by Y12. ) What they take on top of that does n’t really matter.

I agree there is some mis-advice on here, plus some rudeness about certain subjects and courses.

Firstly, not everyone is highly academic and aiming for the most competitive courses at uni or most sought after institutions. Lots of 13 year olds choosing are wanting to keep options open but haven’t got a strategic plan to Oxbridge. Those who choose less academic subjects or more middling institutions should not be regarded with contempt, nor their courses.
Secondly, there is misconception about the importance of individual GCSEs. Most bright kids these days are pushed towards ebacc. This gives them maths, Eng, sci, a language and humanity. With those alone, if achieved at high grades there is a very decent academic range... quite what the optional subjects are will be less important than gaining high grades, for those seeking most competitive unis (which not everyone can, should be or is anyway). Better to have the ebacc at high grades plus a three of less academic subjects at high grades, than 12 academic GCSEs at mediocre grades. So sociology can be fine. It is true though that with the core subjects you are unlikely to do them at a level if you didn’t at GCSE. This is different with things like Economics or sociology or law, where most schools don’t offer a GCSE anyway and having the gcse in that subject is far less important than having a good range of academic qualifications giving general literacy and numeracy skills.
People get confused about facilitating A levels too. A subject is only facilitating for a particular course if it’s essential for that degree. So maths is facilitating for degree Econ as the maths skills are essential, whilst Econ A level isn’t facilitating because the knowledge gained in A level Econ whilst useful isn’t essential. People will have the skills based on their maths and literacy gained through other subjects at GCSE and A level. Som times people speak of the benefits of having 2 facilitating A levels as a sign of a rigorous range of study. Having 2 does do that in a way perhaps having none of the facilitating subjects wouldn’t have. However, someone with top notch GCSEs and then studying a non-facilitating A level that they wish to do at degree and having 2 other good subjects in the mix with high predictions could get offers too, even if only 1 or even none of the subjects was a traditional subject, because they might still have a very academic profile.
Those planning ahead towards top notch, plus selective schools sometimes push everyone in a rather rigid direction. Yes, 2 facilitating a levels, especially with maths probably keeps most options open....but actually most people don’t need every single door kept open and would do better if they chose things they enjoy and just the ‘right’ subjects. Yes, ensure you know any specific course requirements and if you want a competitive academic course make sure your profile fits, but saying you must have all of X,y and z subjects at a level and nothing else will do, isn’t right.

I agree that academic children should be given an academic curriculum and it’s a travesty if they can’t have it because of cuts. There is room in that GCSE curriculum though also for creative and areas they love or the odd vocational thing - it’s seeing the wood for the trees really.

If sociology is taught well then it can be a really interesting subject and one that goes very well with geography (although it is definitely less academic than history). It wouldn't be the end of the world. I did sociology gcse and then history for AS level without having studied it since y9.

The posts about students with a single BTEC are irrelevant to general advice about GCSE options

They are not irrelevant to the OP actually. The OP said that a single vocational subject wasn't an option for teens wanting to follow an academic path at A level. It is perfectly possible to choose a BTEC at gcse level without it penalising your life choices.

In fact, dd has a BTEC instead of an A level and has an offer from a top ten uni. There's are a lot of very outdated attitudes on this thread.

Did the OP actually say that Fazackerlay?

Your post just illustrates that there are a plurality of options at sixth form for university entry. But it is more nuanced than you suggest.

Btecs may be a very good route into some university courses including those with a major practical / vocational component. Not so good particularly without facilitating A levels for ‘purely academic’ competitive degrees such as History.

Yes, so it's more nuanced than some posters here have said.

It is perfectly possible to get into a top ten uni with a btec at a level. Yes the courses maybe more vocational, but the nuance kies in realising that not every single teen on mumsnet wants to read economics at Warwick or history at oxford. Thats where the lack of 'nuance' is on this thread!

realising that not every single teen on mumsnet wants to read economics at Warwick or history at oxford.

interesting that your interpretation of previous posts makes you think that.

My main point continues to be that choice should be appropriate according likely ambitions and schools that restrict choices in core GCSE subjects do their more academic students a disservice by narrowing their options too early.

Wombat: it would be an easier read if you could do paragraphs.

The Cambridge Guide to Facilitating subjects at A level is the one most people use. No one says anything about it at GCSE! It’s not rude to point this out and for many DC it’s wrong not to. Choices of A levels are vital. Most people are now aware of this and many universities make this very clear. If your DC is very bright, why not do subjects to keep options open? Sociology, Photography and Media Studies doesn’t do this

Posters can say all sorts of things about their individual DC who have BTecs at FCSE but still have lots of academic GCSEs. It is irrelevant. Sport is obviously good if you wish to study Biology at University. The idea that DC who want to be medics don’t make strategic academic choices seems very odd to me for such a ludicrously competitive course. I’m sure the majority look at what is needed quite forensically. Just look at all the angst and advice on MN!

It is not rude to be truthful. We don’t really know how academic the OP’s DC might be but it’s wrong to say that BTecs instead of A levels will be fine for academic courses and a Facilitating A level subject will not matter for oversubscribed academic courses (note the term oversubscribed). It is not good advice and it’s not rude to say so. It’s obviously ok for posters to be rude to me though.

Well...one of dds friends got into Birmingham last year to do History and anthropology with 2 a levels and a btec. She got AB in the a levels and a D* in the btec. Birmingham say they accept Btecs on every entry rquirment i could see in the couple of minutes i looked.

Listen, obviously this is derailing the thread and i expect someone will be on to say Hist and Anth at Birmingham is Not Properly Academic but its worth pointing out that 2 good A levels and a btec isnt necessarily going to limit you too much

But Bubbles, the point is that advice such as that offered by the Sutton Trusts 'Informed Choices' is general guidance about ensuring academic students understand an academic profile is required for top courses, not a rigid step-by-step guide which spells out specific individual subjects which will ruin a candidates chances.

Yes, students need accurate advice at GCSE and A Level which allows doors to remain open. That advice can be broader than you suggest. A school can direct students to choose the Ebacc subjects giving them Eng, Maths, Sci, Lang and Humanity. That is 7 or 8 academic GCSEs. If they then have sociology or something oractical in there it is fine. If they make sure they have any facilitating subjects needed for their degree choice and an academic profile, with A/A* in all A Levels, the fact that one of them is Sociology won't prevent them getting offer some from lots of over-subscribed courses. It just won't. It would if it was in with all less academically regarded subjects, but on its own it would be fine, as part of an academic profile. Therefore to say that choosing sociology categorically closes doors, just isn't right.

There are errors made when some people choose their options. Some parents don't understand and some schools give poor advice. Others though understand the point about ensuring there is an academic profile sufficient to get an offer, without the need to be entirely prescriptive about every single A Level choice.

I work in an academic, selective school which is regularly recognised by groups such as the Sutton Trust for their success in getting almost every student into RG Unis and onto the most over-subscribed courses. Our students are very well advised and unsuitable subjects are not offered .... and still the students are able to have some flexibility in their GCSE and A Level subjects to pick things that they might love and which might not individually be facilitating, but are still within an overall highly academic profile. It is very possible and fortunately the universities can see that.

Fazackerkey in your example did the 2 A levels include History or another facilitating A level subject? It would be interesting if Birmingham were admitting students without at least 1 relevant A levels.
Admission information on many universities sites want to encourage widening access as well as fill their courses so their criteria will be inclusive if a course is not oversubscribed.

Yes she did history and i think geography

Dx has just done Art and Photography GCSEs so it can be done. I think she will do well in photography and will at least pass Art. She got very fed up with Art, partly because she fell out with her teacher who is a dickhead, but she also found the topic(s) vague

Exact same thing happened with my Highers (Scotland). I had to drop one of the highers I wanted to do and take a lower level subject I had zero interest in. I was furious, but the school said they couldn't do anything. It's so annoying.

If a student has History and Geography at A level - both of these are Facilitsting subjects! You have proved my point. The degree isn’t History either! It’s got Anth attached which often lowers offers. It’s comparing apples and pears.

Cambridge don’t waste their time on their advice about A levels without good reason. It doesn’t matter what any individual thinks, the example of taking Media Studies, Sociology and Photography will limit degree choices. If that doesn’t matter, that’s fine. But at least be truthful about it!

Ah, someone DID come on and say History and anthropology was not as academic! Gotta lovw mumsnet!

There's a thread about gcses where posters are saying that they think of a grade 7 as a C bubbles, expecting you over there to nod at any minute.

Ah BUT Fazackerley, there's also a thread where someone is arguing that a 6 = A ( not sure what a 9 is then...A*?) actually that maybe the same thread, I had to leave it in exasperation 😄😄