Small disaster with GCSE options for next year

[JoanCallamezzo]

DD (yr 9) was told yesterday that school can’t accommodate her GCSE options now that they have worked out the timetable – she can’t do Geography, History and Art together and has to drop one. She loves (and is pretty good at) all 3 but is most committed to Art and Geography, so it looks like she’ll have to drop History. However, the only alternatives she’s been offered are Music (she doesn’t even play an instrument), Photography (not allowed in combination with Art), 3 vocational non-GCSE courses (Hospitality, Child Development, Health - none of which are right for DD) and Sociology (which is the only viable option but DD has zero interest in it and I feel it is quite limiting as a subject compared to the breadth and scope offered by History).

We are deeply disappointed and feel that DD, who works hard, and was on track for good grades in all three of her choices, is being let down quite badly by the school. She's really upset and stressed. It is being presented as a fait accompli and DD was told she had to decide by today (we have asked for more time and for a meeting to discuss.)

Has anybody managed to resolve a situation like this or do we just have to suck it up and find a way to help DD feel happy about Sociology and less sad about dropping History?! Any ammunition for our meeting next week would be great, as would opinions on Sociology over History at GCSE!

RubberTreePlant I’d be interested to know more about your experience having studied both History and Sociology as your post highlights that I clearly know little about Sociology, which is true as it wasn’t offered at my school so I have never studied it.

My understanding was originally that Sociology was something that was better studied further down the line and not regarded as a facilitating subject like History, not as well regarded by universities etc – a quick search on Mumsnet for ‘GCSE Sociology’ brings up scores of threads/posts which seem to confirm this point of view, although many of the replies on this thread have made it sound more interesting than I (and DD) had originally thought and I would definitely like to find out more.

By ‘breadth and scope’ I was largely referring to the fact that DD, who has already started some aspects of the curriculum in her Y9 history class, was hugely enthused about studying everything from the history of medicine to Elizabeth I and the Holocaust. Reading the curriculum for Sociology, it does not (to me and DD) sound as interesting or varied!

And I do feel that she is being let down by the school – as I have reiterated throughout this thread, I understand that arranging the timetable to suit everyone is a nightmare job, but pushing her to drop a traditional academic subject that she loves, does well at, works hard in, and might potentially want to pursue in the future - and instead presenting a very limited set of alternatives is extremely disappointing. Who's to say that not having the three GCSEs she wanted on her CV at some point later in life won't make the difference between her and another candidate for a place on a degree course, or a job?!

Thankfully, DD is pretty resilient and a very positive person and there’s no need to worry about needing to ‘project a sense of proportion’ to her (thanks for the parenting advice though!)

There is a difference between
a) recommending doing a L2 BTEC to someone thinking they will do a L3 BTEC in 6th form
and b) saying it isn't suitable for someone wanting to do A levels.

1 BTEC wouldn't actively harm a pupil going on to A levels (though I completely accept there isn't one your DD is interested in). It could even help as it would be less to revise for at the end and so make more time available to other subjects.

I think 1 GCSE difference is highly unlikely to impact anything apart from for some GCSEs the ability to do the subject at A level.

I have lost track though. What if she did History and Art? What are the options instead of Geography?

pushing her to drop a traditional academic subject that she loves, does well at, works hard in, and might potentially want to pursue in the future - ...

I'm not sure if you mean that to include both art and history, or just history. If both, I'm not sure art is that traditionally academic. If just history, this really comes down to her preference for art over history - she is giving precedence to a less academic subject over a more academic one and that is not the school forcing her. If academics come first then it seems to me a reasonable compromise that she goes with her second choice creative subject. If creativity comes first then your sister's advice sounds wise and she compromises a bit on the social science. I really don't think she is being particularly hard done by here.

I agree with Second .

This thread reads a bit at times as if you are ruling out all the options, and then saying your DD has no choice.

I do realise it is disappointing and you are having to do a turnaround. And also that the school were trying to push a decision without discussion. I wouldn't be dancing merrily about it either. But I also think there are reasonable options available.

They're both good in terms of marshalling information, essay writing, discussing causation. Probably slightly more statistical content in Sociology and more narrative content in History.

I went to a rather snotty school that didn't offer non-traditional subjects at GCSE, and very few at A level. I always think it's a great shame that we have such narrow ideas in the U.K., but one non traditional subject in a clutch of GCSEs or one at A-level with three "facilitating subjects" is fine.

That "facilitating subject" system is rather harsh on creative arts and the political and social sciences, anyway.

In terms of "breadth and scope", you can't get both depth and breadth in the narrow confines of GCSE syllabus and the emphasis is now very much on skills. In any case, you could argue that needing to know a fair amount about several historical periods and themes makes it a lot of work for a single GCSE, even though that sounds like an enjoyable syllabus. So there are pros and cons in all directions, really.

I do understand that it's not ideal, I just think it's important not to catastrophise.

I have no knowledge of sociology or the other courses your dd has been offered but I just came on to say I posted a very similar thread three years ago.

Dd picked 3 subjects, based on option blocks given by the school. She wanted to do German, French and computer science. School came back to say there weren't enough kids doing languages so they couldn't fit both into the timetable. She was one of only 2 in a year of 190 who didn't get their first choice.

She was really upset as she planned at the time to do languages at uni and couldn't decide which to give up.

In the end she did German, CS and geography. She'd originally rejected geography because "rocks are boring" but she absolutely loved it, got an 8, is doing the A level and planning to do it for her degree.

It's only reading this thread that reminded me it's only by chance that she even did the GCSE.

Just wanted to let you know these things can work out for the best.

Thanks again everyone, you’ve really helped. I think possibly my posts may have at times come across as overly emotional and I’m honestly not being melodramatic about it in real life, or catastrophising, just feel surprised and disappointed at this unexpected situation. This thread has really helped me to see that there are a number of possible solutions. I definitely feel much more positive about it all and ready to speak to school positively with an open mind next week to agree a way forward with DD.

KickBishop That's really good to read, I'm so glad it has worked out so well for your DD.

Oh no that's shit isnt it if shes not interested in any of the subjects offered.

Apologies if you've already been asked this but have those subjects been offered to her as they're the only classes that dont clash, or because other classes are full?

Fwiw when I went from GCSEs to sixth form I was told there wasnt space in geography for me and my dad rang up (lol) and gave it the whole "I cant believe you're denying my daughter the opportunity to do this subject when shes done do well at it" etc etc so maybe if you put some pressure on them they might suddenly be able to accommodate?

If not, sociology could have some good transferable skills/knowledge for future subjects at a level?

Just read another of your posts and thought I'd mention - the GCSE subjects you study have no bearing on what you can study at university, your a levels might though.

The only thing I'd worry about is for example if she eventually wanted to study medicine she would need eg bio and chem a levels and to do the a levels she would need to do them at GCSE level.

Drop art and enrol her in an art eve class ( my dd runs some). Unless she is going to study art at art college then its not that useful as a stand alone subject. My DD studied fine art.

was hugely enthused about studying everything from the history of medicine to Elizabeth I and the Holocaust.

That's not what happens though! They're taught as completely separate standalone modules. 3 of mine did/are doing History GCSE (in fact one did GCSE and A level, and still has no idea how everything actually fits together ) and it's very much 'tick off the key moments for X topic' rather than giving any sort of holistic overview of our past.

I'm not saying it's not useful or doesn't teach useful skills, just that it's not that amazing, imo.

What are the alternatives in the Geography block? If any are more appealing than sociology, then that might be worth consideration.

Neither History nor Geography A levels require you to have done the GCSE at the 6th form colleges my y11 dd has applied to. I would ask your dd's school to put it in writing that she can choose either without the GCSE if she wants, might make you all feel better about keeping her options open.

It's frustrating, I do sympathise. DD has gone through similar disappointment re her A level choices, but for her it's just made the decision for her to go to 6th form college rather than stay at her school which was her original plan. Not so easy at this stage.

This shows that providing the wide choice of subjects that would suit less academically inclined students paradoxically forces academic students to specialise too early due to inevitable timetabling clashes.

Also history and art are a great combination for anybody who might be interested in theatre studies or creative subjects or art history after school. So IMO the achool’s option blocking is rubbish.
Having said that, if she likes geography but is not interested in science she is more likely to be a human geography / social sciences type person and therefore sociology could be an interesting aside. She won’t learn the same analysis techniques from it that she would from history but she could catch-up for A level history if motivated. I agree with PP that you should get written confirmation from the school that she can do history A level without the GCSE. If they won’t then that choice is a real test of whether art or history is more important to her for sixth form and beyond (putting the art teacher’s recruitment drive aside).

Dd original options were drama music and history with geography and media as reserves. It came back she couldn't do drama and music and her reserves weren't available either, media was full and geography and history wasn't an option.

She had to choose PE Health and Social or Business, she went for Health and social and has found it really interesting. It certainly wasn't a soft option and her year 10 parents evening was told her folder of work (already quite substantial) needed more going into it before it would be submitted.

Apologies: my maths was wonky: yes, it’s 9 GCSEs.

I totally agree with sendsummer. These options are not set up for academic DC. They shouldn’t be pushing BTecs on people who really want and need GCSEs. There are many schools that don’t offer them at all. A more academic DC shouldn’t be inconvenienced by poor options and clearly at this school the choices are skewed away from humanities students.

I think it’s wrong for any school to make a humanities student unable to make reasonable choices. Whatever anyone says, Sociology at any level isn’t History. Many schools don’t offer sociology and History is offered everywhere. There is a reason for this. At A level it does open more doors. I accept your DD might not be aiming at the best universities but History is way more valuable than Sociology for all the courses that were listed above and you can add Law and any form of History to those. It is a facilitating subject for good reason. I doubt if a single course actually asks for Sociology. Probably not even Sociology. Facilitating means keeping doors open. It’s not a reflection on the worthiness of the A level. A school should never put a student in a worse position than they ought to be in.

As an aside, my DD2 did both Photography and Art at A level. It is doable! She got A* and A. It’s great when schools do allow children to flourish in what they are good at. Humanities, MFL, Art - whatever. No scientist is ever told not to take the Chemistry component at GCSE! But stoppping languages, humanities and art is seen as fine! It’s not. Don’t be persuaded that Sociology is the same. It isn’t. I might compromise on the Art though. That will close doors but you have to decide how much that matters.

But she can do History

The hysteria over BTECS is pathetic. Dds boyfriend is going to Oxford in Sept. He has a sport BTEC (as well as 10 top gcses). Didn't seem to hold him back at all!

I'm amazed a PP thinks Photography A level is fine but Sociology isn't Photography is for the absolute dunces at dds school, unless they want art college.

I have a DD who does a lot of art and is thinking about a degree course with strong creative content and she will not be doing a lot of art at school - we use the holidays for art courses and the progress she makes in “immersive” residential courses and weeklong specialized courses is incredible.

But Bubbles the DD can do geography and history, just not geography and history and art. It isn't skewed away from humanities at all. In fact iirc (I am getting a bit confused) the DD could choose geography AND history AND sociology.

Faz Friend's DD did Photography at GCSE and is now studying architecture. Definitely not a dunce!

When you go for the meeting, I would ask for the option blocks to see what options are in each block just in case a solution presents itself. I would talk to the head of history to find out their policy on having GCSE to do A-Level, don’t take a senior member of staff’s word as it will be the head of history who decides the policy.
Also ask the school if they are prepared to be creative, for example could she do History and Geography and would the art department be prepared to let her do Art in the other block in a corner whilst other classes are going on for example. Our school did this, a pupil wanted to do music and French and they were in the same option block, so we came to an arrangement where he did French in the option block and did his music in the corner of my class, as he could work on composition and performance independently and I helped whilst my class were working and then I set work on the set works and I used to arrange with the French teacher, to do an occasional swap so he’d come to me for a lesson and then sit in the corner of her class and catch up on the French instead of coming to me.

I meant Photography a level and dunce was a horrible word so I apologise. Its definitely the non academic option at dds school t a level however unless you are heading to art school. I was surprised to hear a PP being so scathing about sociology but in the same breath praise photography

Dd had similar. No blocks when it came to choosing but after been told she couldn't do what she wanted suddenly a block list appeared!

Dd ended up doing art, photography and product design and actually started art only in the Easter of Year 10. She was made to do German and after two terms had a meltdown and refused to go to any German lessons and I backed her and got her into art. Which they'd been adamant clashed with photography but then we found someone else who did both so we knew they were wrong.

Dd got an A in product design and a B in art and also photography. So it's certainly possible to do 2x heavy coursework subjects if she wants to.

If she likes history she will like sociology, it's a great subject & really does change the way you think & it's full of history 😀

No scientist is ever told not to take the Chemistry component at GCSE

The equivalent here would be a scientist insisting that Art is more important to them than chemistry, and then feeling hard done by because they can't also do chemistry.