Upset for my nephew and angry with my sister

[BretonLeopard]

I am very close to my nephew (don't have children of my own) and my sister. When she applied for secondary schools, we went to look at two schools - both in the catchment area but the first choice (A)always oversubscribed and DN is not from the feeder school. His primary is a very good Catholic school. Her second choice (B) is closest to his home but again, his primary is not the feeder school. Another choice would have been the local Catholic School (C) (I work at this school but she decided for various reasons not to send him here). His school is the feeder primary to this school.

This morning, my sister messaged to say that she is on the waiting list for school A. The offer she has is for a different school (D) which is a terrible school. I couldn't; understand this, as her second choice (B) was so near.

She has since told me this morning that she only put down school A and did not put down any other choices.

I am absolutely devastated for my nephew and livid with my sister. I think she has been completely reckless and I fear there is nothing she can do.

Does anyone have any advice?

Bertrand, well that would be risky and reckless. The system is simple. Whether you get a place in the school that you have your heart set on is another matter.

Like swamptytiggaa I only put 1 choice on my form. But I did so having calculated that the set of circumstances that would lead to DC not getting a place there were so ridiculous as to be discountable. I also further calculated that even by some miracle those circumstances did occur we had zero chance of getting into any school I might actually choose, so would be left with one of 3 undesirables. I could have spent time working out which of these I disliked least, but decided not to bother.

So whilst I agree with the general advice that filling in all preferences is good, some times local knowledge (note I say knowledge, not hearsay or myth) can prevail.

We put down 6 choices and only got offered our 1st choice, which makes me glad that we swapped first and second choice round.

Again, that's not how it works. You will only get one offer from the process - either the only one you qualify for, or if you qualify for more than one, the school you put highest. If you got your first choice, you don't know if you actually qualified for any of the others. If it was the only one of your preferences for which you qualified, you would have got it wherever you'd put it. The only reason for putting it first not second is if it was genuinely your first choice! (And glad you got it!)

The level of ignorance from some on how the process works is very worrying, especially the comment about only getting one offer. Surely no one thinks you get more than one and you pick your preference.

Look, they ask you to express some preferences on a form, maybe 3 or up to 6, depending on area.
They will consider whether you meet the criteria for any of your chosen schools and if there's space for you.
If you qualify for more than one of your listed "choices," they then look to see which of them you listed highest, and there's your offer.

Surely no one thinks you get more than one and you pick your preference.

I hate to day this to a complete stranger, but blimey, caughtinanet, you really should get out more.

There are indeed those who mourn the passing of the good old, pre equal preference, pre coordinated admissions scheme days, when just such a thing was a 'thing'. And plenty, who have had just as much opportunity as you and I to avail themselves of the correct, up to date information provided by their LEA, who apparently have no idea that it isn't done that way.

My mistake Brimful.

I don't think that this is all down to parents – when we were being shown round our local school by the deputy-headteacher, he told us explicitly that we should only put his school on the form because if we put any other preferences, the council were likely to 'shuffle it all around and give us our third choice.' Another school told us something similar. The system is set up to put schools in competition with each other, and the schools will tell you anything to ensure that they get your application.

@Duvetday123 that's categorically incorrect. That deputy clearly did not understand the system. If the council did what he suggests they would be in breach of the admissions code. Why would they? There is no advantage to the council in doing such a thing.

Of course it's incorrect – I know that now and I knew it when the deputy told us. But he still said it. The headteacher at another school also gave us incorrect information about admissions which I posted about on here at the time. They were both desperate to get us to apply it seems, and would go to any lengths to ensure we did.

To the poster talking about scholarships at state schools - What?? There are no scholarships at state schools.

Every local authority will have a section about equal preferences in it's "Moving up to secondary school" section. The only reason people could possibly have for getting confused is not reading the information in front of them, or believing schoolgate myths about the order to put them in.
This isn't helped by some heads stating that you need to put them first if you want a place. What they should say is "If you really want a place at this school and we are your first choice, put us first because the computer will believe that the order you have put them in is your genuine order of preference. If you can be offered your first preference you will be. If not you will be offered the highest preference possible".

Parents, understandably, assume that heads and teachers know how the system works. Most of them don't! And they should be honest about it.

Heads also want boasting rights "We had more first preferences than the school down the road".

How on earth has every single one of the OP's subsequent posts been deleted for 'Breaking Talk Guidelines'?

Mustbetimeforachange, I couldn't understand why both schools lied to us as they are both the most popular in the area and always oversubscribed. I think you're right – it's about the bragging rights and creating a climate of frenzy and a 'battle for places' in the minds of prospective parents.

@BaronessBomburst I reckon the op had concerns about anonymity after the mention of the other thread and asked MN to delete their posts.

I thought that too at first, but then it usually says 'message withdrawn at posters request'.
Maybe MNHQ just hit the wrong button.

Sorry @Duvetday123 misunderstood your post!

@Mustbetimeforachange - I know it's barking but there are schools in London that offer "scholarships" (ie selection) which consist of free additional lessons in the area offered, eg music/sports coaching etc. A friend has such an offer for her DS from an SE London school of the kind that gets discussed on MN! (though their progress scores are no better than those in my local comp, which definitely does not get discussed on MN as a rule). It's an academy so can tweak its admissions criteria as it wishes.

It's an academy so can tweak its admissions criteria as it wishes
I get what you mean, but they still have to follow the admissions code and consult on any changes!

To the poster talking about scholarships at state schools - What?? There are no scholarships at state schools

Yes, there are. My dd got one :)

Some schools reserve a number of places- usually 5 or 10%, for children with a particular specialism. For dd it was sport, but it is often music, and in one school it they had a dyslexia specialism.

In dd’s school they were ranked on standing, or aptitude. You could provide evidence of national/international competition, or go in and do an aptitude test ( i think bleep tests, strength, general sport skills).

Then kids were offered scholarships prior to admissions. There were varying levels to basically jump you up the admissions list. I can’t remember how it worked.

Then once in the school you got specialist help with sport- arrangements for time off for training/comps, extra curriculars in sports psych, s&c etc.

Another school i know if you get a music scholarship all your lessons etc are free through the school.

Yes, music scholarships are quite common, but there are maths ones, sports, general ability, language aptitude and many more. They can be worth quite a lot of money for extra classes, but for many schools, it is selection by a back door. Quite common in London.

Selection by back door, yes - but also, sometimes a useful way re-launch a school's reputation and tempt aspirational families, as a way to break a sink-school / oversubscribed middle class favoured school polarisation.