Things you wished you had known about the 11 plus process

[Goposie]

For me, that the numbers applying are crazy and the sheer odds stacked against getting in.

What other forms of selection are “championed”?

Music, drama, sport for a start.

Also, how about state comps which use selection for entry into their sixth forms.

Or faith schools where places are allocated according to your frequency of worship.

^I appreciate, by the way, that mine is a minority viewpoint. i only wished to challenge ALL parents just want the best school for their children. Not all parents do.

I don't, because i don't want to disadvantage others.^

At what age is selection by school / university type is no longer viewed as disadvantaging others?
Also what happens to that stance if the ‘best school’ is selecting between a poor comprehensive and good comprehensive and ditto for primary school (in relative terms for one’s DCs)? Would you stick to the poorer school?

Selection by faith is iniquitous.

How much selection for music sport or drama is there in the state sector?

And post 16 selection is a separate issue.

I don't, because i don't want to disadvantage others

What a waste. Bright children could grow up to cure cancer but wait, we can’t educate them more than this other child so let’s all knit yoghurt instead...

Oh, if you mean those schools who take in 10% on music or sport then tat is simply backdoor academic selection and would certainly not be championed by me-or anyone else who opposes selection at 10!

“What a waste. Bright children could grow up to cure cancer but wait, we can’t educate them more than this other child so let’s all knit yoghurt instead...”

Not sure why selection at 10 is required in order to grow up to cure cancer. Apart from anything else, what about the bright child who fails the selection process and therefore decides that they are not bright.....

BertrandRussell you’re like a stuck record!

I was talking to the parent who won’t send her child to even take the exam because someone else’s child might miss out 🙄

Why would a child need to be educated less because they missed the 11+ pass mark by 2 marks?

BertrandRussell Has singlehandedly made me determined to put my children into private education or 11+ tutoring depending on where we live at the time.

I don’t want them mixing with people like her!

“I don’t want them mixing with people like her!”

Shame. My children are bright, engaged, well behaved, talented, kind, hardworking and successful. Just the sort of children you would want yours sitting next to. And I used to organise amazing PTA fundraising events.

I hear “If we all can’t do it, no one can do it. Waaaahhhhhh!”

Pathetic. Might as well do away with all exams and live in caves.

My kids WORK HARD. They deserve (and get) a great education.

BertrandRussell Ill pass thanks! Plenty of kids are like that that don’t have parents who are bloody boring spouting their crap over and over and over...

“I hear “If we all can’t do it, no one can do it. Waaaahhhhhh!””

You might be hearing that- but I don’t think anyone’s saying it. You crack on though, if it makes you feel better!

My kids WORK HARD. They deserve (and get) a great education.

So do mine. They attend a comprehensive, not a grammar.

And post 16 selection is a separate issue.
It is a continuum of selection and relative advantage as is selection to the ‘best’ rather than local university. There is no evidence that selection stops conferring advantage by postponing it beyond 11. Those moving to a selective sixth forms won’t be the socially disadvantaged.
Selection by choice of primary school probably confers the most advantage beyond parental education as those early years are key.

Fuck me Bertrand, you’ve made me determined to stand up for the grammar system also. This irrational hatred of the “elite” when all they’ve done is work hard and get good exam results, is pathetic.

Well done the kids who are bright!

Parents who do not understand that they and they alone responsible for bringing up their children

I choose to bring up my children to work hard, achieve well (maternal level of education as a predictor is still working well in this generation...) AND care for society as a whole. Not clamber over others to achieve what people perceive (often wrongly) to be 'the best'.

They're doing absolutely fine. Like Bert's children, they are "bright, engaged, well behaved, talented, kind, hardworking and successful. Just the sort of children you would want yours sitting next to."

Yay the grammar schools. We’re private but grammars are great for those that can’t afford private fees. Means the brightest kids don’t miss out. All areas should have them.

Well done the kids who are bright!

My children are [very] bright.

They attend a comprehensive, though grammars are available.

They are attaining absolutely in line with their peers at grammars.

DS has got a place at his first choice institution post-18, in a highly competitive (though not profitable) area. DD is currently on track for very high GCSEs.

You can be [very] bright, not attend a grammar and do very, very well.

Means the brightest kids don’t miss out.

Exactly what will DD - on track for 8 9s and 2 8s, and something old-fashioned representing excellence in Further Maths - be missing out on in her comprehensive?

You can be [very] bright, not attend a grammar and do very, very well.

So what’s everyone moaning about then 😂

Hahahahahahhaa!

It’s all equal then, hurray!

Nothing to see here, move along 😂

“This irrational hatred of the “elite” when all they’ve done is work hard and get good exam results, is pathetic.”
Eh? Could you explain?

The thing is, if everyone says

'We need grammar schools in every area so the brightest children don't miss out', then there IS something to see.

Because the truth is:
'In most parts of the country, many very bright students do extremely well at comprehensives. In a few parts of the country, some of those bright children go to grammars instead, and do equally well there. Some people want the choice of grammars in every part of the country, although that is extremely hard to balance with maintaining very high quality education in the resulting secondary moderns. Any selection by any means improves raw results but results in unequal distribution of children with SEN and from challenging backgrounds. As many people judge the quality of schools by raw results, the quality of selective schools is then unfairly perceived as better. As Ofsted grades are not independent of %SEN and %PP, Ofsted grades are an equally unfair way of comparing schools with very different intakes.'