Things you wished you had known about the 11 plus process

[Goposie]

For me, that the numbers applying are crazy and the sheer odds stacked against getting in.

I am just puzzled by how you felt that the part of my post that you quoted linked to the article you posted?

Yes-some universities do make contextual offers. I’m not entirely sure why it is relevant to this thread though?

Again I could not give two hoots if grammar schools are designed for the preservation of the middle class. Though that depends if you class every family who is engaged in education and whose off spring are not entitled to Pupil Premium as middle class.

The main reason most children attending grammar schools are not from the very poorest end of society is on whole, because families who are aspirational tend to climb out of poverty !

This being due to hard work intelligence and determination, therefore (with the odd exception ) children coming from more prosperous circumstances are more intelligent. Prosperous in this sense meaning family incomes around national 'family' average of £31,000 PA.

I apologise for defensiveness in my tone.

It has been claimed on this thread that i am a whiner, that i only dislike grammar schools because my children are not able enough to get into one, and that I am actively damaging my DC's chances of going on to highly-rated courses by the fact that I choose to send them to a comprehensive ... just as a small selection.

I mean, I would be quite happy to be told I am a sanctimonious moralising do-gooder, for putting society's wider good above my own family's narrow good. That viewpoint i understand and can see that there is evidence for. The rest, not so much.

Oh for goodness sake you are being ridiculously paranoid! You have said at least twice that you are white and I have no idea why and that you are “MC” (middle class?) and I have no idea why. You bang on about your social conscience but you are the only person on here ramming that down people throats as if it makes a difference to us.

You actually sound quite unsure about your choices but what’s done is done. It is easier for your daughter to get into university now, don’t worry about it!

(And it won’t matter what colour she is!)

Youwhat,

(And it won’t matter what colour she is!)

Tell that to black children at Oxbridge. Colour DOES matter. Black people are RIDICULOUSLY under-represented there - so DD would have a better chance of being interviewed by someone of her own colour and social class, and that will influence her chance of getting in. Which is obviously - or at least obviously to all right-thinking people - wrong for society.

You actually sound quite unsure about your choices

Could you clarify? I'm not quite sure why you would think that?

I would be quite happy to be told I am a sanctimonious moralising do-gooder, for putting society's wider good above my own family's narrow good.

But you didn’t. You just freed up a place for another student to get in and one, as another poster remarked, that may not have had a social conscience at all. Or maybe they did and they have done a great deal of good at the school changing opinions and stereotyping.

“You bang on about your social conscience but you are the only person on here ramming that down people throats as if it makes a difference to us.”

Hey-what about me? [feeling left out emoticon]

Soprry, omission in first post: DD would have a better chance of being interviewed by someone of her own colour and social class than a black applicant of the same ability but different background and that will influence her chance of getting in.

I’m not continuing this discussion. You are so convinced that there is prejudice you see it everywhere.

Bert, but apparently you and I are the same person, because there just CAN'T be two people with the same opinions who are BOTH anti-grammar.......

So consider yourself included...or merged...or something!

Race and social class still have a depressingly significant impact on educational outcomes in the U.K. it is naive to suggest otherwise.

You,

Are you denying that there are very, very, very few black students at Oxbridge? it's really quite well-known and well-documented?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39787690

fullfact.org/education/bme-students-oxford/

BertrandRussell I have no idea what colour you are or why it’s important to tell the thread, or which class you have decided you are and ditto. If you have posted it then I missed it.

Plus as far as I’ve read you are not fishing for some sort of reverse compliment to try and prove your own self worth.

[I do, randomly, know the colour of Bert's hair - only because it cropped up on another thread and I was very surprised because over the years i had built up a mental picture of her! ...Derail - apologies....]

“You bang on about your social conscience but you are the only person on here ramming that down people throats as if it makes a difference to us.”

Hey-what about me? [feeling left out emoticon]

Your moral conscience doesn't extend to rejecting the privilege of grammar schools or preventing psychological damage to children or damage to society as a whole (as you see it).

What about me and my social conscience?

The issues with getting pupils on ppm into grammars has been high lighted endlessly.
There is a gap that children will fall into unless a little bit of out reaching goes on. But that's not allowed in some areas for some bizzare reason. But posters have said before that their state primary has done some extra grammar work and in those areas... Surprise surprise... Those grammars have more pupils on the premium.

And fsm.

It really wouldn't take much for poor disadvantaged students to get what they need to access a grammar.

Parents who have gone through the system could do a few talks.. Give advice and provide some exam techniques... Nvr... Explain the test.. Make sure maths covered and do some speed tests.
I know kids who have been tutored for two years.. Already attending top primary school (state)... Who fail..

A slight nudge for poorer students would give them a massive boost. This is not allowed by politicians and those in eduction who share the views of some posters here..

Because.. They don't want grammars, an they don't want ppm in grammar or fsm. They want the stats to look bad.

They are happy to throw endless kids under the bus in a school that isn't right for them though.. Because they have engaged parents!

Re some comments on sec moderns.. It just needs re branding then. Calling these schools failures or the pupils who attend them failures Is the parents etc and general society.

Mental health issues, self esteem problems and all kinds of failure etc can happen to dc sent to the wrong secondary school.

Who said that??

Shall we have a social consciences unite moment?

They don't want grammars, an they don't want ppm in grammar or fsm. They want the stats to look bad.

Can you substantiate that claim??

(I mean, it may be commented on by some that I over-use statistics ... but a little evidence for some claims can be helpful?)

I asked if you were in education earlier Bertrand Russel as I am and I'm not sure you replied?

Also having read back through this thread I must admit I am taken aback to read your dc have gone to grammars.