Things you wished you had known about the 11 plus process

[Goposie]

For me, that the numbers applying are crazy and the sheer odds stacked against getting in.

We’re carrying on our discussion off the thread thanks. Feel free to keep on blaming us and feeling hard done by in our absence 😁

If your kid isn't naturally very bright, they will need a shit ton of coaching or practice for a long time at great expense and stress!

I wish I hadn't put my bright but not exceptional son through it. He didn't stand a chance and it made him so anxious. Even the brightest kid in his year group didn't get in. It's phenomenally selective.

We are living proof that level of maternal education is a very strong predictor of educational success!

I really hope this isn't true because I had a terrible education and have no academic qualifications. And before anyone says but you could have gone on to further education and got qualifications as an adult, no I couldn't because I was working 3 jobs to pay my mortgage and also I am a bit dim.

A PP complained that her teaching in her Grammar school was dull and uninspiring. Teaching in the school I went to was nearly non-existent, lessons weren't dull though, there was always someone willing to throw a desk or chair across a classroom to liven things up, when they weren't openly swearing at the Teacher or storming out of class. Science lessons consisted of getting everything out for an experiment, then someone setting light to a book or someones hair with a bunsen burner, then everyone filing out of class whilst Teacher dealt with ensuing fire. Then everyone filing back in, packing equipment away and the lesson ends. Also anyone who tried or wanted to do any work was bullied badly, the school never did anything about it. I was told in the first two weeks of school to stop answering any questions and doing any work or I would get my head kicked in. People regularly did get beaten up. Guess what I decided was the best thing to do. Really loved my school .

In wholly selective areas, the class division between grammars and non grammars is stark.

I'm not sure this is true. In the school my DD goes to, lots of the parents have high powered jobs and degrees, there are also plenty of us in low paid jobs who never went to University or got degrees. Plenty of mums who work as cleaners, lunchtime assistants or in shops and DH's who work as mechanics, in supermarkets or as estate agents etc.

High ability poor children are actively selected against having less well educated parents.

My Dd was actively selected even though she has a less well educated mother and no I couldn't afford tutoring and we only decided to do the test in the summer before yr 6 with the test in mid September. I did however get some books from WHSmiths and some past papers from a friend whose son went to the School DD attends now.

What do you think happens to the DC that don't pass? They go to the very good comprehensive school that DD's classmates go to now. Of the 8 that took the 11 plus in my DD's (requires improvement) primary school, 2 passed and 6 went with the other 52 dc to the local comp, non of them seemed bothered that they didn't pass, they were just going to the comp with all their friends rather than the Grammar school with just a couple of friends.

Person A does the local history stuff at half term.
Person B goes to Alton Towers.
Person A takes time to do the homework with their child every night.
Person B sticks on the tv or gives the child an iPad.
Person A buys books and educational materials for use at home.
Person B buys game apps. Don't do this much though, as I prefer to buy actual things rather than virtual things.

I did all of the above for DD, and she does two types of sport after school and two academic clubs. Is that a well rounded childhood rather than just only one type? I also work 6 days a week and DD comes to work with me in school hols and Saturday afternoons after her sports club. I however have no life just 5 more years.

My DS however went to the Comp that all dd's friends went to and did really well and had a lovely time. However he was top set for everything and barely ever saw the other 50 or so DC that he was in Primary school with who were in lower sets, so I'm not sure that it is as integrated at all Comps as everyone believes.

Also lots of the parents of the DC at the comp are degree educated, Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists etc.

That just about everyone ends up in the right school in the end. Or a perfectly good school anyway

Gosh such a lot of people blaming the schools and the system when they should be blaming themselves.

You are responsible for your own children.

When did the snowflakes decide the schools were responsible for who our children solely associated with? When they couldn’t be bothered to introduce them to anyone themselves?

Is this a result of the “no one should be allowed to fail it’s bad for their self esteem” mentality that many of the parents here would have grown up with? You’re passi g it down to the next generation. I never made e causes for my children.

Loads of children don’t give a damn about results. Like finds like, they’ll do what their mates do. It’s the parents that mind and it’s the savvy parents that realise it’s down to them not the government or some random teacher.

My boy didn’t get into the football team. He continued playing with his mates his dreams of being David Beckham shot down in flames... He survived!

I do wonder if there is some name changing going on here..........

And the blame keeps coming!

Who is name changing @BertrandRussell ?

Things you wished you had known about the 11 plus process:

~for a local private school all is business, they do not care about 11+
~all parents (in our south London area) pay for tutoring, no if, no buts, even if they do not admit it
~ starting in y5 is considered by majority of the local parents as too late
~ do not trust what other parents tell you, your DC is just a competition

Maybe nobody’s name changing. Maybe there is more than one person who thinks people are opposed to selective education because it shows up their crap parenting!

BertrandRussell I don't think anyone is opposed to selective education because it shows up their crap parenting. I would think most people who are opposed to Grammar Schools, either have DC who have tried and failed to get in. Or have idealistic notions that all DC should be educated in a Comprehensive School and that all the Comprehensive Schools give a brilliant education to all Children.

I'd imagine most people choose Grammar Schools for many different reasons. Schools in their area aren't very good, can't afford Private schooling any longer. Closest school. Or just they think that their DC will thrive in a Grammar School rather than a Comp. I didn't choose to put my DS into the test because he is dyslexic and he would have struggled with the fast pace. My DD on the other hand is loving it, she said in the first term she finally feels like she fits in at school. Surely you just choose (if you are lucky enough) the school which you think will best suit your Child.

Why did you send one DC to Grammar and one to Comp? Why did you send one to Grammar when you are opposed to Grammar Schools?

Bertrand Russell sent both her DC to GS. One at 11, when she passed the 11+, and the other at 16, when he managed to get a place in the GS Sixth Form after failing his 11+.

This is strange and hypocritical behaviour for someone vehemently opposed to GSs.

Do you want to discuss or do you just want to shout? Feel free to shout at me- i’m fine with that. Discussion is more interesting, though.

@BertrandRussell it is because you put the above that I was asking you why you are against a Grammar School education.

Tinty- do you really not think that people can be philosophically and politically opposed to selective education without self interest?

No I do believe you can be philosophically and politically opposed to selective education without self interest.

But really that is just; do as I say not as I do, isn't it?

If you are deeply philosophically opposed to selective education, yet choose selective education for your DC, you need to keep very quiet.

So you are just like all the Politicians who oppose Grammar Schools and went to one themselves and send their DC to Private School.

In an ideal world all schools would be good. We don't live in an ideal world so we do the best we can for our DC.

So now your DC are educated you are advocating for everyone else to send their DC to Comprehensive Schools and get rid of Grammars so that it is fair.

“Bertrand Russell sent both her DC to GS. One at 11, when she passed the 11+, and the other at 16, when he managed to get a place in the GS Sixth Form after failing his 11+.”
I live in a wholly selective area. So the only way not to engage with the selective system is, ironically, to go private.

Or maybe it’s because it’s a messageboard phenomenon that when people read an opinion they agree with they will post saying so 🙄.

I must say there seems to be no argument against selective schools on this thread apart from moaning about how unfair it is because all the children don’t end up the same. Well who would have thought it?!

Read: The Selfish Gene
Google: Crabpot mentality

As a pp said, start saving for your grandchildren’s tutors now.

If you are deeply philosophically opposed to selective schooling, surely the principled course of action is to move to an area without selective schooling?

I think the crap parenting comment was made in reply to a poster’s reason to get rid of selective schools being that there wasn’t a mix of abilities or whatever at them. Thus the children never met anyone else.

Which is weird. Meeting people is down to parents.

“a group will attempt to reduce the self-confidence of any member who achieves success beyond the others, out of envy, spite, conspiracy, or competitive feelings, to halt their progress.”

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

@BetrandRussell

Surely with your views you would rather have sent your clever DC to one of the Secondary Moderns in your area to benefit the DC in those schools by not having the so called clever DC creamed off.

Just what a waste of time it all is, especially if you have the option of private schooling...