has anyone gained a space at a selectiive school without a tutor?

[ananga]

Hi everyone,
I woke up rather stressed yesterday morning when I started to question my choices as a parent in refusing to tutor my children for the 11+. I firmly believe tutors are invaluable when a child is struggling in a subject and their expertise can help them gain stability in an area they are weak. However, I have always wanted my children to have a natural passion for learning without the aid of a tutor. I want them to learn because they want to not because I am forcing them to. Coming for a community where tutoring is the norm I have always tried to be strong to resist it.

However, the other day I realised that all the parents I knew were specifically tutoring their children for 11+. I have spent time researching the same and a lot of evidence suggests that tutored kids do perform better. My concern is where does it stop? Children are being tutored throughout Secondary Schools too.

I know Grammar schools may require tutoring, however I have always hoped there would be more chance with the indies as many do non verbal and verbal reasoning. (I know these can be prepped for too) But recently I feel that may not happen either as in the end it is the exam that matters.

So please would any one mind sharing if they have achieved places at selective boys schools without the aid of a tutor?

Thank you

It’s perfectly possible to pass the entrance exam without employing a tutor, I know some who have. The vast majority employ someone.

Absolutely everybody I know will have tutored in some shape or form with practice papers, exam technique, mock exams. Either at home themselves or paid someone.

I wouldn’t go into a test unprepared, and I wouldn’t want my child to either.

Mine didn’t have weekly tutoring but attended a week long preparation course for exam technique. That was invaluable.

Yes, my DS did.

BUT, three main points of prep he did do.

Firstly the 11+ in my area is based on the maths and English curriculum so I was confident that he had covered all the material at school. I wouldn't be happy to do minimal prep for NVR and other type exams.
Secondly, his school did prepare the children for the exam.
And lastly, I worked with him 121, for an hour a day for 9 days during the last 2 weeks of the summer holidays (exam early September) to ensure he hadn't forgotten stuff over the summer and to ensure his exam technique was good, knowing when to guess, when to park and return to a question, that sort of thing. Also encouraged him to use more interesting words in the free form English question.

He passed very comfortably.

I am more than happy to support my children at home in areas they need help. I am just feeling nervous I have not employed a tutor to take them through a course to prepare. Hearing that it has been done is all I need to know as then it is up to the child.

@Bubblesbuddy did your child pass for a selective school, do you mind telling me if they were at a state or indie primary? Courses on technique I believe are fine, its more the vigorous training. I also wonder what magic formula they have? what course did you choose for them.

thank you both for responding

@chewbecca that is so reassuring to hear. What area are you based in for the 11+? Also did you mean you would have got help to prepare for non verbal reasoning?

My son took the Essex CSSE exam.

Yes, I would have ensured more prep was done if the exam was different in nature. Not sure whether I would have done it myself with him or via a tutor.

Have you looked on the eleven plus exams forum? It is full of info and advice, targeted to the exam that is relevant to the school or group of schools you are aiming for. It is a bit scary though!

My 3 got into very selective private schools without tutoring.

One came from our local state school, and just did a few papers which I bought (very minimal prep), another came from a private primary which did some prep in school, but he did no prep at all at home. The third was very good at taking tests, so didn't really need any prep, as he positively enjoyed things like NVR.

I think that if they are familiar with the way the test works, have done a few practice tests, and don't feel stressed or uncomfortable, they will be ok. I would just make sure they are used to all the kinds of questions they might see, know how to keep going and not waste time, and see the whole thing as some sort of game if possible.

@chewbecca well done to you and your son. Yes I have been on there, I just found mostly parents had tutored their children and so was feeling overwhelmed that even if we do some work at home will I be disadvantaging my son. I do feel for Grammar like QE the tutoring is needed but am hopeful the indies will have opportunities for boys who haven't been.

Me

@clarashu that is so reassuring and well done for getting all 3 into great schools. what a great forum this is, feeling so much better and less pressurised having heard from you all.

The majority tutor (I didn't either) but I do know someone who passed easily for the local superselectives without tutoring. The superselective bit does make it slightly trickier, I think, because you are not aiming at a particular pass mark.

You can practice at home, especially the method of marking the answers on the answer paper and timed tests because I think the practical bits of actually taking the exam are a lot to take in when you are nervous!

My DD is now in the same sets as former schoolmates who were tutored for the test who, like her, didn't reach that year's standard.

My elder DD was at a state primary with no test prep at all other than the familiarisation paper sent out by the LA at the end of the summer term in y5. They gave the score for that but I couldn’t translate it into a test score which was a maximum of 141. The Head told me her score was fine. It was 68. She got 140 in the real tests so I have no idea to this day how the familiarisation paper should have been interpreted! Maybe it was half a paper?

We worked though Susan Doughtey books for VR for a term or two and a bit in the summer holidays. She had no paid for tutoring. However time management, going back to tricky questions to check and other such techniques were covered in the 1 week course. It was advertised in the local paper. It did what I wanted for her. I’m not even sure we finished all the Susan Doughtree books!

Other DD attended a prep school and would have needed a lot of tuition to have a squeak at 121, the minimum mark. The school pre tested her in early y5 and we were asked if we wanted tuition for the 11 plus or not. They said she could pass with tuition. I doubted the wisdom of that.

In the end both DDs went to the same selective independent boarding school that wasn’t quite as selective at the lower end as the Grammars are here. DD2 had no tutoring at all. She just did English, maths and an interview at the school in the January of y6. She would have hated intensive tutoring and she danced a lot so evenings were busy and she did a couple of clubs at school. We felt she was happier with her activities that were not academic and she had quite a lot of homework. If you know your child needs tutoring for years, I’m not sure it’s worth it. We thought lowering our sights for DD2 was better but we could afford private so had a choice.

Yes, we only ended up in catchment by a complete fluke (promotion and house move to within half a mile of the school) a few days before cut off date. We bought a couple of old test papers from WH Smith and she did them in the two weeks before the test. NVR came naturally to her when she sat down to do the tests. VR was easy for her - big reader.

Definitely a good fit school wise. DD was considered a swot at primary and very quiet, often embarrassed by her results.

This school is perfect for her (she wouldn’t have gone despite passing the test if I didn’t think it would suit her persona).

There does seem to be a lot of tests, longer school day, not too much homework at home as she does a lot of it in the library.

DS didn't have 11+ tutoring and attended a state primary so no prep available at school. He'd been busy with clubs and socials until the winter holiday then worked through comprehension and writing over the the holiday using some text books I bought from WHS as they were his weakness. He also did a coupe of timed test. He enjoyed the whole process, especially interview (wanted to go back to talk more...). He passed.

We know quite a few that have gained places in selective schools without tutoring, but it has been down to the ethos/atmosphere of their families- academics, intellectuals etc, so the children are having debate and hearing intellectual conversation from an early age. They are broadly educated rather than narrowly focused on English, maths, and non-VR.

Both of my DCs passed without private tutoring. They did practice papers and books for a few months at home to get a feel for the types of questions and then worked on speeding up in the summer holiday prior to the exams. I remember wondering if I was doing the right thing though as everyone else seemed to have private tutors and I had to deal with parents telling me that I was making a big mistake!

My DD did as we entered the 11+ a few months ahead of time and then left it to the last minute to decide. They moved the test from June to September of year 6 in our area and we did nothing over the summer the night before I suggested that she look at the sample paper from the school so as not to embarrass herself and we were glad she did as it was a computer answer format where you coloured in squares rather than write the answer. She aced it and there was no pressure in contrast with some of the others who had to leave the test in tears due to pressure from parents.

I have done this - we used Bond papers and Schofield and Sims books at home to work through practise tests for a couple of months beforehand to make sure DD was up to the right kind of level and understood the format of questions.

IMO the most important thing is for the child to practice exam technique, be familiar with the type of questions they’ll be answering and the format of the test. If you’re in Kent it’s also worth knowing that some of the maths which may crop up on the test isn’t taught until y6. If you feel able to cover these areas using papers and practice books I don’t think a tutor is necessary.

Absolutely. Technique is so important. They need to know to move on quickly, don’t spend too long.

It feels like a test of speed and accuracy. Put one mark in the wrong box and it’s easy to throw all the answers.

A friend of mine spent an hour a week with my DCs, mainly going through past papers, testing speed. Knowing times tables is really important.

Children are used to doing tests, these are just another test in another class room. I would recommend doing one or two mock exams just to get them used to the environment. I admit I found it useful as I had a wobble taking DC1 into the mock, I think I would have found taking him into the actual exam more stressful if I hadn’t done it. (I have 4DCs, all passed but with a level of informal tutoring for want of a better term).

If you haven’t found it already, the elevenplus forum has regional as well as general sections which you might find useful.

Good luck to you both. Stay calm, stay out of the playground conversations - they only serve to whip up stress IME.

I live in a really competitive area for schools and I wanted the best for my DD knowing the reputation of the local council schools. We got a tutor from Love2Teach who knew the entrance exams and helped with English and Maths especially. We only have one hour a week, and then me and my DH do extra at home

Yes but most are tutored.

Interestingly at DS1's school the children who got the various academic scholarships are by no means all towards the top of the class now. I suspect the had good tutoring and a lot of practice at the exam technique.

I tutor for 11 plus (amongst other things)
The main reason that parents employ tutors for this is that the 11 plus covers stuff that isn’t normally covered in school. An example would be verbal reasoning which tests logic etc.
Another reason is that the exams are held when there is quite a bit of year 6 to go so some children will simply not have covered questions that are on the test-this is especially true for maths.

My dd did it.
She was at private boarding prep who did no prep at all for 11+
We did some papers at home over holidays before exam.
She had one session with a tutor.. Hated it, said he confused her and he told us she'd be unlikely to pass unless we paid for intensive tutoring for whole summer hols.
At home she aced the papers so we declined his kind offer!!!
She scored in top 10 and had choice of gramme school.
Now in upper sixth and continues to thrive there.
Even though she pretends she is too cool for school

Sorry not sorry about a not very stealthy boast there...